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Are there enough toilets on the new A350?

Are there enough toilets on the new A350?

Old Jun 20, 2017, 7:41 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by bennos
While the A350 Y ratio is a bit worse at 56.5 (I agree the 2LR lavs are primarily intended for W), it's not way out of line. That said, the galleys by row 55 have doors... which seems strange. I wonder if those are supposed to be lavs?
I think you're right and those are supposed to be lavs.
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 7:58 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
It will also be interesting to know how premium the premium-economy, or as Delta is calling it, "Premium Select," will be. Will passengers struggle to get a drink or a refill outside of scheduled meal services? Up front, glasses almost never go unfilled, even between services. In the back, passengers basically have to get out of their seat and walk back to the galley for a drink during 11 of the 14 hours on a flight to Tokyo.
It seems pretty likely that DL's model for W is VS, with dedicated flight attendants, PDBs, an enhanced food menu, a relatively large cabin, and dedicated lavs (though that could vary according to aircraft), so I'd expect something similar. I'd expect 2 FAs for 48 W pax (1 per aisle), which implies not quite domestic F levels of service.

In other words, I don't expect proactive refills of drinks, but I do expect prompt refills if I ring the bell or go to the galley. I'd expect better service than for other carriers where W is basically Y level of service (AF, JL, CI, etc).

Originally Posted by iadisgreat
I think you're right and those are supposed to be lavs.
Looking at other airlines' seat maps, there is always at least one and sometimes two lavs by the rear doors (and always 4 mid-cabin), so it seems plausible that DL would do the same.
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 8:49 pm
  #33  
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No lav thread is complete without a reference to:

https://medium.com/@JohnLeFevre/the-...e-3eb88ab42b18
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 8:49 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
It will also be interesting to know how premium the premium-economy, or as Delta is calling it, "Premium Select," will be. Will passengers struggle to get a drink or a refill outside of scheduled meal services? Up front, glasses almost never go unfilled, even between services. In the back, passengers basically have to get out of their seat and walk back to the galley for a drink during 11 of the 14 hours on a flight to Tokyo.

Because the hard product is average at best, they will need to stand out with service for PS to be successful. My guess is that they will, as on board customer service is often an area where, IME, DL really stands out.
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 9:06 pm
  #35  
 
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If the 8 lavs shown are indeed the configuration, that's a disappointingly poor ratio and positioning for a long-haul aircraft. If you're in the aft cabin, you can easily get blocked by carts. And if you're in the front Y section, hopefully it won't be looked down upon to use the PE lavs. Otherwise you can be blocked too.

Originally Posted by bennos
While the A350 Y ratio is a bit worse at 56.5 (I agree the 2LR lavs are primarily intended for W), it's not way out of line. That said, the galleys by row 55 have doors... which seems strange. I wonder if those are supposed to be lavs? The interior specs say "8 lavs" which suggests no, but they also say "4 galleys" which makes no sense. (It should be 3 for J/W/Y, or 10 if you just count the squares.)
I can't find a long-haul aircraft from a U.S. carrier that's worse than a ~51 pax/lav ratio. And the shown positioning would be poor too, the only comparable being UA's 2-class 763. It's well out of line.

Two things tell me there's no lavs in the back. The first is that it lists 8 lavatories in the figures. And the second is that without significant galley space in the middle areas of the aircraft, they would need extra space in the rear. I'm putting my money that the "doors" are just leftovers from the generic lav template, but we'll see.
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 1:01 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by minnyfly
If the 8 lavs shown are indeed the configuration, that's a disappointingly poor ratio and positioning for a long-haul aircraft. If you're in the aft cabin, you can easily get blocked by carts. And if you're in the front Y section, hopefully it won't be looked down upon to use the PE lavs. Otherwise you can be blocked too.
I certainly hope the PS lavs are off limits to coach, this would be a significant way to devalue the service with potentially 226 people coming up to use the lav.

Typically on intl flights movement between cabins is not allowed, especially to higher classes of service. At one point DHS had banned it, but not sure where that stands now.


Originally Posted by minnyfly
I can't find a long-haul aircraft from a U.S. carrier that's worse than a ~51 pax/lav ratio. .
Depends on how you do the math. You really need to do it by cabin not whole a/c. By cabin the 777 has 63 pax per lav in coach and the a350 has 55.

Last edited by jdrtravel; Jun 21, 2017 at 8:01 am
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 3:10 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
Has anyone noticed that there are only 4 lavatories for all of economy-class on Delta's new A350? Here's the aircraft map: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...rbus-a350.html.

There are 226 passengers in economy-class, assuming all of the seats are occupied. That means there are 4 lavatories for 274 passengers, unless flight attendants allow the 48 premium-economy passengers to use the 4 lavatories designated for the 32 business-class passengers.

By comparison, there are 10 lavatories for the 328 economy-class and comfort-plus passengers in the Boeing 747. That's 1 lavatory for every 32.8 passengers on the 747 compared to 1 lavatory for every 68.5 passengers on the A350.

I suppose I need to remind folks not to go barefoot or without shoes/slippers into any lavatory once the plane boards.
I think the map is wrong. Two spaces marked as galley space aft have doors; I suspect these are lavatories but are misidentified and miscounted.
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 7:56 am
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Originally Posted by us2
I think the map is wrong. Two spaces marked as galley space aft have doors; I suspect these are lavatories but are misidentified and miscounted.
Or the doors are what is incorrect. Another possibility is that this is where the crew rest area is accessed, though I don't think it would be two places.
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 8:04 am
  #39  
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Originally Posted by us2
I think the map is wrong. Two spaces marked as galley space aft have doors; I suspect these are lavatories but are misidentified and miscounted.
Other airlines with A350 aircraft in place show additional lavatories in these two spaces. It's very unclear if Delta has removed the lavatories for expanded galley space or if the seatmap is incorrect.
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 8:13 am
  #40  
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A lot of the seatmaps for other airlines that show lavs in the back have fewer lavs in the rest of the plane. 8 lavs total seems to be pretty average.
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Old Jul 25, 2017, 7:57 am
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Last edited by deelmakur; Jul 25, 2017 at 8:04 am
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Old Jul 25, 2017, 8:16 am
  #42  
 
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Well it looks like the seatmap is updated with regards to the aft lavs.

8 total lavatories is looking very likely
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Old Aug 6, 2017, 9:24 pm
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Originally Posted by FlyerWx
Well it looks like the seatmap is updated with regards to the aft lavs.

8 total lavatories is looking very likely
This seems like a significant oversight/misdesign. Even with a relatively low ratio on DLs A333, full flights after the 'breakfast' snack into AMS have long queues at the lav block by row 27. I think some pax don't realize there are two more aft (and there aren't on the A332, though it has fewer Y pax).

I can imagine some A350 flights where the line to use the lavs will be long well after initial descent and seatbelt signs. How many problematic pax interactions with FAs (or destroyed seat cushions? Eww, sorry everyone) before DL realizes they made a mistake?
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Old Aug 6, 2017, 9:24 pm
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Last edited by RaflW; Aug 6, 2017 at 9:25 pm Reason: strange FT burp made a new post. sorry
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 5:53 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by RaflW
This seems like a significant oversight/misdesign. Even with a relatively low ratio on DLs A333, full flights after the 'breakfast' snack into AMS have long queues at the lav block by row 27. I think some pax don't realize there are two more aft (and there aren't on the A332, though it has fewer Y pax).

I can imagine some A350 flights where the line to use the lavs will be long well after initial descent and seatbelt signs. How many problematic pax interactions with FAs (or destroyed seat cushions? Eww, sorry everyone) before DL realizes they made a mistake?
I have no information to confirm it, but I happen to believe Delta deferred its second round of A350 aircraft to see what it needed to fix from the first round. It makes sense.

For example, I really think there will be a lot of complaints about the business-class seats, which, despite the much-hyped door, are very, very narrow. For anyone used to the spacious 747, the new seats are hardly an equal replacement.

I know the Delta fanboys will say Delta never makes mistakes because they have all the statistics and data points, but I really think Delta screwed up by reducing the number of business-class seats on the A350. I don't remember a single empty business-class seat on a DTW-NRT flight in the four years I've been flying that route (2-3 times a year). I have a hardly time believing 5-10-12 passengers on each flight are non-revenue employees, award redemptions, or global upgrade certificate redeemers.

Let's hope Delta realizes its mistakes before the second round of A350s are built and fixes the shortage of lavatories, among other changes.
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