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Are there enough toilets on the new A350?

Are there enough toilets on the new A350?

Old Aug 7, 2017, 6:07 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
I have no information to confirm it, but I happen to believe Delta deferred its second round of A350 aircraft to see what it needed to fix from the first round.
I suspect fleet planning requirements and financial status are much more likely to be the cause of any deferral. DL has demonstrated it doesn't really care about "mistakes" in interior cabin design (cf: B737-900), and anyway those are "easy" to fix relative to the capital expenses related to new airplane purchases.
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 6:51 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by bennos
I suspect fleet planning requirements and financial status are much more likely to be the cause of any deferral. DL has demonstrated it doesn't really care about "mistakes" in interior cabin design (cf: B737-900), and anyway those are "easy" to fix relative to the capital expenses related to new airplane purchases.
Not true. They did remove a row of Y seats from the A320 after FA complaints. The 739 isn't ideal, but there's no significant problem with it. Only four Y lavs on an ultra long-haul aircraft is a signifiant problem IMO, and will almost certainly be corrected after the issues become apparent.
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 7:44 am
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
I have no information to confirm it, but I happen to believe Delta deferred its second round of A350 aircraft to see what it needed to fix from the first round. It makes sense.

For example, I really think there will be a lot of complaints about the business-class seats, which, despite the much-hyped door, are very, very narrow. For anyone used to the spacious 747, the new seats are hardly an equal replacement.

I know the Delta fanboys will say Delta never makes mistakes because they have all the statistics and data points, but I really think Delta screwed up by reducing the number of business-class seats on the A350. I don't remember a single empty business-class seat on a DTW-NRT flight in the four years I've been flying that route (2-3 times a year). I have a hardly time believing 5-10-12 passengers on each flight are non-revenue employees, award redemptions, or global upgrade certificate redeemers.

Let's hope Delta realizes its mistakes before the second round of A350s are built and fixes the shortage of lavatories, among other changes.
But the DTW/NRT still feeds the few NRT-SIN/MNL/ROR/GUM etc flights and until recently several others.

The writing is on the wall TYO will be a destination only sooner than later with the KE JV coming on line and the SEA hub.

Hence the need for fewer J seats.
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 7:59 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by SOBE ER DOC
Lavatories don't generate revenue. Seat do. It's that simple.
Don't give the airlines any ideas. Next thing you know, toilet paper and soap dispensers will be locked behind credit card machines.
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 10:49 am
  #50  
 
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Again, if you look at the ratio of coach lav/person compared to other long hauls, the A350 is a little bit worse, but not tremendously so. It is only 6 pax more per lav than the 777. That being said, I do agree that they need at least one more lav, and that the ratio should probably be someplace in the 40's.

777: 50 pax per lav (254 total coach seats)
A330: 43 pax per lav
747: 41 pax per lav
767ER: 43 pax per lav
A350: 56 pax per lav (226 total coach seats)
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 10:55 am
  #51  
 
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
I have a hardly time believing 5-10-12 passengers on each flight are non-revenue employees, award redemptions, or global upgrade certificate redeemers.
Why is this hard for you to believe? It seems plainly obvious that if DL felt they could sell a larger cabin they would have installed it. They have demonstrated, with great success, that capacity discipline works in their favor because it drives cost up.

If they can sell the 32 D1 seats on the A350 for an average of $5K each, that's $160K. If they have 42 seats, but the average is $3K because there is more inventory and tickets prices drop, they bring in only $126K.


Originally Posted by hockeyinsider

For example, I really think there will be a lot of complaints about the business-class seats, which, despite the much-hyped door, are very, very narrow. For anyone used to the spacious 747, the new seats are hardly an equal replacement. .
D1 Seat width A350: 22-24"
D1 Seat width 747-400: 20.5"
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 11:01 am
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by kop84
But the DTW/NRT still feeds the few NRT-SIN/MNL/ROR/GUM etc flights and until recently several others.

The writing is on the wall TYO will be a destination only sooner than later with the KE JV coming on line and the SEA hub.

Hence the need for fewer J seats.
On the other hand, as the KE joint venture gets rolling, ICN could start looking an awful lot like NRT did for Delta five years ago. If that happens, DL might be wishing they had some extra capacity flexibility again...
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 11:19 am
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by BenA
On the other hand, as the KE joint venture gets rolling, ICN could start looking an awful lot like NRT did for Delta five years ago. If that happens, DL might be wishing they had some extra capacity flexibility again...

If DL/KE work together like VS/DL they'll be able to mix and match equipment depending one what works best.

There are a lot of plane options, and on routes with high premium demand KE has several options to throw on including A380's.
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 12:05 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel
Why is this hard for you to believe?
Based on my own experience of not seeing many crew non-revenue passengers and by how difficult it is for many diamonds to redeem global upgrade certificates. You have to be very flexible to get it redeemed at the time of booking. I think most people don't book trips around when they can redeem a certificate. They book based on when their work schedule allows them to do it.


Originally Posted by jdrtravel
D1 Seat width A350: 22-24"
D1 Seat width 747-400: 20.5"
That may be the case, but the consensus amongst many of the commentators has been that the new seats look much, much more cramped than the old seats.
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 1:07 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Zorak
No lav thread is complete without a reference to:

https://medium.com/@JohnLeFevre/the-...e-3eb88ab42b18
Brings back painful memories of a flight on an 7-Pax MU-2 from PHL to AGS. No restroom.

Just before he closed the door, the pilot put on a cooler full of beer.

Mistakes followed (by the PAX, not the crew).
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 1:39 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
That may be the case, but the consensus amongst many of the commentators has been that the new seats look much, much more cramped than the old seats.

This is just not a meaningful source of information. It may be that the actual experience, for whatever design reason, is that these feel more cramped than the 747 D1 seats, but at this point, we just don't know.

Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
You have to be very flexible to get it redeemed at the time of booking.
Inventory at time of booking is not an indicator of how many seats they are selling vs. upgrading or giving to non-revs as part of their compensation. You'd have to have the data on how many non-rev and award/upgrade seats are being flown at time of departure to make your point. I'd say that given how often GUC gate upgrades as well as accusations of "non-rev parties" are discussed on FT, it seems that this is happening with a fair amount of frequency.
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 6:12 pm
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel
If they can sell the 32 D1 seats on the A350 for an average of $5K each, that's $160K. If they have 42 seats, but the average is $3K because there is more inventory and tickets prices drop, they bring in only $126K.
That logic is flawed. If they were able to sell 32 D1 tickets in a plane with 32 D1 seats they would still be able to sell 32 D1 tickets in a plane with 41 D1 seats.

The yield would drop because the remaining seats would be occupied by upgrades, op-ups and non-revs but revenue would still exceed $160,000.
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 6:46 pm
  #58  
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
Based on my own experience of not seeing many crew non-revenue passengers and by how difficult it is for many diamonds to redeem global upgrade certificates. You have to be very flexible to get it redeemed at the time of booking. I think most people don't book trips around when they can redeem a certificate. They book based on when their work schedule allows them to do it.
While some people (including me, in my recent post in the GUC thread) look for availability at booking, I think a lot of people are willing to roll the dice and waitlist (including me, when using last year's GUCs). So I think there may be more cert users and also mileage burners than you think. Not that I have data either, just guessing
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Old Aug 7, 2017, 6:49 pm
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Originally Posted by Zorak
While some people (including me, in my recent post in the GUC thread) look for availability at booking, I think a lot of people are willing to roll the dice and waitlist (including me, when using last year's GUCs). So I think there may be more cert users and also mileage burners than you think. Not that I have data either, just guessing
How did we go from talking about toilets to D1 Revenue?
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Old Aug 8, 2017, 8:11 am
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by KKinLA
That logic is flawed. If they were able to sell 32 D1 tickets in a plane with 32 D1 seats they would still be able to sell 32 D1 tickets in a plane with 41 D1 seats.

The yield would drop because the remaining seats would be occupied by upgrades, op-ups and non-revs but revenue would still exceed $160,000.
I was under the impression that increased inventory can drive prices down. That those 32 seats might actually sell for less money because there are more available and there will be be downward pressure on the price point. Is the not true?
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