readywhenyouare

My parents live in Memphis. I frequently fly MCO-CVG-MEM and it is well time for connections. Usually from 50 minutes to 1:15. Same for MCO-CVG-ORD//STL/MCI.

xliioper

Okay, now try BDL,MKE,BNA,DEN,SEA,SFO, etc. I said many, not all. Look, I have nothing against CVG and DL is certainly doing some back-filling of flights with connecting pax. All I'm say is that connecting pax are more of a secondary consideration than at other hubs and DL's primary focus there is the O&D passenger.

AAerSTL

I have to wonder if DL is making this announcement to get some attention from the local media following the WN & recent major AMZN announcements. Obviously after years of cuts any additions, even marginal are welcome to CVG. DL has a history of recycling old route/facility announcements and I suspect they're coming at this with a similar objective. That said, I wonder how much of this is simply a seasonal adjustment for the peak summer season, and then come fall this will quietly fade away with no further ado.

woodford02A

Fact is, CVG had not seen mainline or two-class airplanes on many of these markets for years...so I do think it's good news

BenA

If you're referring to the new air hub Amazon is building, that's largely a lateral shift from the old Airborne Express hub they already operate at Wilmington, OH (ILN) to capture a 40M incentive package from Kentucky. They're locating at CVG precisely because the airport infrastructure is overbuilt for its current number of flights, and they believe that situation won't change in the foreseeable future. That leaves plenty of airfield capacity (3 simultaneous takeoff/landings!) for them to grow their cargo operation, in a place with ample existing cargo infrastructure already supporting DHL.

CVG may end up looking even more like SDF as Amazon ramps up, allowing the airport authority to reduce fees to attract new service, and SEA-CVG may get marginally more popular as a route. But CVG was already the closest major international airport to their old cargo hub at ILN (only DAY was closer). This project isn't going to bring a large number of new employees to CVG with a need for international travel; it will largely be managed remotely from Seattle. The only thing this improves the odds of is international cargo flights.

Separately, DL is very slow to update their list of hubs and focus cities. MEM and RDU have both stuck around despite almost 5 years' gap in them having hublike service; IND only recently dropped off the list. A hub is defined by the percentage of connecting traffic, and for CVG that stat has dropped from 75% in 2005 to only 12% in 2016. I think that's hard to argue CVG is a true hub with connecting traffic that low.

readywhenyouare

Delta has always had a strange definition of hub. They even call NRT, CDG, and AMS hubs. While at one time Delta had a handful of infra-Asia flights at NRT I would never have called it a hub in the traditional sense. And AMS and CDG are AF/KLM hubs, not Delta.

KDCAflyer

CVG has more traffic than RDU (a true focus-city), and is much larger than any outstation. Regardless of the percentage, it still sees a measurable amount of connecting traffic. It is certainly a hub, just a small one. NRT was and technically still is a hub (for now), despite the small amount of traffic. DL only operates those interport flights to take feed from US-NRT TPAC flights.

AMS and CDG can be called hubs since DL is in a JV with AF/KLM. While the connecting flights are not operated by DL, their operations are closely synced to allow for easy onward connections from DL-operated TATL flights.

MEM is a traditional outstation at this point, and I don't think that RDU was ever a hub. It started out as an outstation and has been built into an O/D focus city.

readywhenyouare

It is interesting that Delta got its feathers ruffled with WN announcing CVG. IIRC Delta just rolled over when WN entered Atlanta. They retreated and handed WN several markets on a silver platter. Contrary to some people's beliefs it seems CVG is still a profitable operation for Delta.

pbarnette

So many things in that statement are factually incorrect...

kettle1

You are kidding? Correct?

readywhenyouare

I don't remember Delta making any announcement about increasing ATL service when WN took over the AirTran operation. In fact, they pulled back service. No more mainline to PHF, a historically strong AirTran market that Delta competed on. They left some mid-Atlantic region markets and pulled all of the remaining widebodies out of Florida. Delta and AirTran got along nicely for years but when Southwest entered the scene Delta started retreating.

I won't give you any passive-aggressive emoticons though.

woodford02A

readywhenyouare's assessment is 100% incorrect. If anything, it's the complete opposite. Delta launched a massive local marketing campaign when WN entered and WN has continued to trim destinations and capacity from ATL year by year.

3Cforme

The PR boilerplate isn't even listing CVG as a key hub and market.

Including its worldwide alliance partners, Delta offers customers more than 15,000 daily flights, with key hubs and markets including Amsterdam, Atlanta, Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles, Minneapolis/St. Paul, New York-JFK and LaGuardia, London-Heathrow, Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Salt Lake City, Seattle and Tokyo-Narita.

BOS, yes.

CVG, no.

See two releases just in the last week:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300399602.html

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300400503.html

See the irony in excluding CVG in the announcement of adding O&D flights at CVG?

How much traffic does a carrier and airport need reasonably to qualify as a hub for a carrier whose 3 biggest hubs have 900+, 400+, and 400+ flights? I'll say that under 100 flights on a peak day, with many of those RJs, doesn't make it.

DL has restructured CVG around O&D traffic. That is healthy in that it may be sustainable within the context of other proximate DL hubs. If you can't accept that it's going to be a real blow when DL ops at RDU have more daily seats than CVG. I believe that day is not far off.

pbarnette

I won't give you any passive-aggressive emoticons either. That is because they are unnecessary. You are wildly wrong. Full stop. This isn't an opinion, you are completely and utterly wrong on the facts.

WN started shedding capacity at ATL from the minute they acquired Airtran and are now something like 30% smaller than the combined carriers prior to the merger. DL mainline, on the other hand, is something like 30% larger. I mean, your example of PHF is telling in that WN pulled out of there completely, as soon as the ink was dry on the merger. There was no reason to "respond" to a carrier hell-bent on retreating to begin with.

You'd do well to brush up on the historical record before posting further on this subject.

BenA

pbarnette and I don't agree on much around here, but their assessment of WN in ATL here is spot on. WN has systematically dismantled the old AirTran operation, raiding it for the profitable bits and shedding the rest...