Documentation problem, family of 4 Involuntarily Denied Boarding
Jan 2, 2017, 7:29 am
#106
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Between 2010 and 2015, I flew to HRE via JNB (ATL - JNB on DL) an average of 6 times a year and each and every time Delta tagged my bags through to HRE, so for me to have my bags tagged to HRE wasn't some isolated incident!
Has Delta's policy on interlining changed between 2010 and now?....
Has Delta's policy on interlining changed between 2010 and now?....
Delta is confirming its policy for through-check baggage. Effective for travel on or after January 11, 2016, Delta will check a passenger’s baggage between the origin and destination airports that are issued on a single or conjuncted* ticket exclusively.... If a second ticket is presented for travel, Delta will only check the bag to the destination of the Delta ticket(s). Luggage may be claimed at the Delta-ticketed destination, and then re-checked by the customer with the downline carrier for the next flight.
Jan 2, 2017, 7:39 am
#107
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 40
Interlining is not necessarily an issue. And in this case not relevant as the issue was not interlining but lac of documentation. Most airports will collect and recheck bags for connecting passengers without visa. The transit desk typically assists with this.
Exactly the same as when the passenger is denied entry and the bag is rechecked for the return flight.
OP complied with all South African requirements and was denied boarding due to AFs misinterpretation.
In any case - It is always a good idea to email a (password protected) PDF with copies of all documents to yourself to prevent this.
Exactly the same as when the passenger is denied entry and the bag is rechecked for the return flight.
OP complied with all South African requirements and was denied boarding due to AFs misinterpretation.
In any case - It is always a good idea to email a (password protected) PDF with copies of all documents to yourself to prevent this.
Jan 2, 2017, 9:35 am
#108
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I just don't get why one would take the chance on transiting a country without having the documentation necessary for entry. Aside from the possibility of being denied boarding enroute to the transit point, IRROPS happen due to a variety of causes. Weather, labor problems, political disruption and other factors could cause a trip to be interrupted between flights and leave one stranded in the transit country without the ability to obtain entry.
Jan 2, 2017, 9:38 am
#109
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 9,132
AF didn't misinterpret. ZA does require a birth certificate to enter. VS was willing to accept the risk (and associated fines and costs) if passengers were to try and enter JNB, their final destination instead of flying onto HRE on another ticket. AF wasn't and correctly denied passenger.
Jan 2, 2017, 9:38 am
#110
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DL's actions at JFK are neither here nor there. Permitting OP to board and checking his bags through to HRE may have violated DL's own internal policies, but they are not unlawful. The first because permitting OP to board simply meant that DL was prepared to accept the risk of OP being excluded at JNB and AF insisting that DL bear the costs. The second because, although DL & SA have an interline agreement, these were separate tickets.
Simply put, DL put itself at risk. Perhaps.
But, none of that has anything to do with OP and his family or with what AF did at CDG.
As to the birth certificates, if it is your personal policy to only travel with the documents which you personally believe to be necessary, but you nonetheless keep PDF's on your laptop "just in case," why not recognize that bureaucrats are bureaucrats the world over. They like raised seals and the like. If your children's have those, keep those with you. If they don't, print out the PDF's on nice bond paper and keep them with you.
I can't tell you how many people I deal with who insist on a fax rather than an emailed PDF. They can't explain it, but it's what they want and they won't act without the piece of paper, so it's a fax they get.
Simply put, DL put itself at risk. Perhaps.
But, none of that has anything to do with OP and his family or with what AF did at CDG.
As to the birth certificates, if it is your personal policy to only travel with the documents which you personally believe to be necessary, but you nonetheless keep PDF's on your laptop "just in case," why not recognize that bureaucrats are bureaucrats the world over. They like raised seals and the like. If your children's have those, keep those with you. If they don't, print out the PDF's on nice bond paper and keep them with you.
I can't tell you how many people I deal with who insist on a fax rather than an emailed PDF. They can't explain it, but it's what they want and they won't act without the piece of paper, so it's a fax they get.
Jan 2, 2017, 9:44 am
#111
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proof of onward travel is a requirement for entry. So is birth certificate. They meet all but one requirement. As noted as JNB was ticketed destination they needed to be able to meet entry requirements. The fact the airport is setup to allow one to skip immigration is irrelevant. Some airlines won't check you in at the gate when starting a new ticket. Passenger could decide to skip the HRE flight, etc... Bottom line they didn't meet entry requirements. If they had been an actual transit passenger they would have meet requirements.
Jan 2, 2017, 12:32 pm
#112
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LGA, JFK
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proof of onward travel is a requirement for entry. So is birth certificate. They meet all but one requirement. As noted as JNB was ticketed destination they needed to be able to meet entry requirements. The fact the airport is setup to allow one to skip immigration is irrelevant. Some airlines won't check you in at the gate when starting a new ticket. Passenger could decide to skip the HRE flight, etc... Bottom line they didn't meet entry requirements. If they had been an actual transit passenger they would have meet requirements.
Jan 2, 2017, 12:35 pm
#113
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The OP's onward ticket flights were for transiting South Africa and not for entering South Africa.
The conditions for transiting South Africa are not the same as the conditions for entering South Africa -- whether or not the onward flights were on the same ticketed booking or were on separately ticketed bookings.
Jan 2, 2017, 12:36 pm
#114
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That is not the bottom line. OP was an actual transit passenger. The ticketed destination was HRE. When transit requirements are less stringent than entry requirements, it is not necessary to "meet entry requirements." AF goofed, and should pay OP compensation. In my opinion.
AF doesn't know if they have to CLEAR into the country to get to their TRANSFER. I recently transferred in CAI. I had proof of onward travel. I arrived at Terminal 3 and left from Terminal 1......I HAD TO CLEAR and pay the visa fee to enjoy all the luxuries of Cairo airport for 3 hours. It is the OP's fault, not AF.
Jan 2, 2017, 12:53 pm
#115
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That is not the bottom line. OP was an actual transit passenger. The ticketed destination was HRE. When transit requirements are less stringent than entry requirements, it is not necessary to "meet entry requirements." AF goofed, and should pay OP compensation. In my opinion.
Jan 2, 2017, 1:47 pm
#116
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Let's put this another way. You buy ticket from country A to country C with a stop in country B. You do so because while B is your destination booking to C via B is cheaper. You lack documents to enter C since you never intend to enter it. The airline is going to deny you boarding to country B since you're ticketed destination is C. They owe you nothing since your ticketed destination is C. In this case you're even legal to enter B, thus there would be no fine. However if they allowed you to board and you did decide to fly onto C they would be liable when you were denied entry.
The ticketed destination matters. Now DL was willing to accept the risk that OP would indeed not try and enter. However since AF was the carrier flying into JNB, it wasn't DL'S call to make. If they had flown DL down to ATL and onto JNB then the DL choice at JFK to fly them on would have worked. This is why most airlines make you show your passport again even though their partner checked you in and flew you to connecting point. I know BA even if you have an AA BP with DOCS-OK requires you to present your passport again. The agent at JFK thought no risk (and DL itself may feel fine with). AF though didn't. ZA is very strict on the birth certificate requirement and the airlines know this.
The ticketed destination matters. Now DL was willing to accept the risk that OP would indeed not try and enter. However since AF was the carrier flying into JNB, it wasn't DL'S call to make. If they had flown DL down to ATL and onto JNB then the DL choice at JFK to fly them on would have worked. This is why most airlines make you show your passport again even though their partner checked you in and flew you to connecting point. I know BA even if you have an AA BP with DOCS-OK requires you to present your passport again. The agent at JFK thought no risk (and DL itself may feel fine with). AF though didn't. ZA is very strict on the birth certificate requirement and the airlines know this.
Jan 2, 2017, 1:58 pm
#117
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Strictly speaking, the OP was a transit passenger. The trip was completed by the OP transiting South Africa.
Jan 2, 2017, 2:43 pm
#119
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If we are talking the TIMITAC rules, you are simply wrong. Destination and transit are defined per ticket. JNB was the destination.
If we are talking S Africa visa rules, it is not even defined.
If you are talking the airport rules that allows one to transit w/o clearing immigration, it might or might not be the case. There are many cases where a forward tiicket will not allow you to transit w/o meeting entry requirements.
Everybody here arguing the OP's side is doing a real disservice to readers. If on split tickets, be prepared to have entry, not transit, requirements,. Period.
Jan 2, 2017, 2:52 pm
#120
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A few data points from the points raised above:
On my one lifetime AF flight from Paris to Johannesburg 3 yrs. ago, we had a mechanical problem and a 14-hour delay, which would have activated many of the concerns noted above, no matter who was "right." In my case, AF ended up providing a night at CDG and then a night at JNB for all affected. This could have been a real mess for the OP.
As to not double-checking and fail-safe-ing the various rules, I waited a while last July at LHR for my 30-yr. old son to get out of immigration. Reason? Having to show a return ticket, which he only had on his phone app.
Finally, after reading up on this board and elsewhere, I went ahead and printed out the rules for the transit waiver program in China when flying in late 2015 SYD-PVG-DTW-ATL, on an itinerary that included an allowable stopover. The China Eastern front line staff in SYD would not let me go until supervisors got involved and after a... discussion. My printed-out stuff from the web is what saved me from missing the plane.
On my one lifetime AF flight from Paris to Johannesburg 3 yrs. ago, we had a mechanical problem and a 14-hour delay, which would have activated many of the concerns noted above, no matter who was "right." In my case, AF ended up providing a night at CDG and then a night at JNB for all affected. This could have been a real mess for the OP.
As to not double-checking and fail-safe-ing the various rules, I waited a while last July at LHR for my 30-yr. old son to get out of immigration. Reason? Having to show a return ticket, which he only had on his phone app.
Finally, after reading up on this board and elsewhere, I went ahead and printed out the rules for the transit waiver program in China when flying in late 2015 SYD-PVG-DTW-ATL, on an itinerary that included an allowable stopover. The China Eastern front line staff in SYD would not let me go until supervisors got involved and after a... discussion. My printed-out stuff from the web is what saved me from missing the plane.