Mountain Explorer

DL's new CS100 simulator. Looks like fun

StayingHomeIsBetter

Article on CS-100 and how few airlines are buying them. DL mentioned as an exception.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-com...ant-1504710035

nebraskaboy

Link to the full article with no paywall: http://www.cetusnews.com/life/The-Co...PCYjx5Ttb.html

bergamini

I tend to think DL usually makes really good fleet decisions and am interested to see how the CS-100 plays out.

Mountain Explorer

Boeing contends that Bombardier sold the planes to DL at a huge loss.

They sale the sale price was an "absurdly low" $19.6M, while the cost to build a CS100 is $33M and the list price is $72M

http://fortune.com/2017/04/28/boeing...dumping-probe/

SJC ORD LDR

So, DL got a good deal on these planes too? Sweet.

StayingHomeIsBetter

So, Bombardier is losing money on each unit, but they are going to make that up on volume?

Mountain Explorer

LOL. They were desperate to get a major US airline onboard

RaflW

Boeing of course has sold airplanes at absurdly low prices to thwart orders by competitors, so I find the claim by Boeing to be quite aggressive. The list price of $72M is silly. All airplane list prices are silly.

Bombardier needs the Delta order to 1.) show that a major US carrier has confidence in the product and supplier and 2.) keep the line running. Losing around $10M per frame (the $19.6M price is highly suspect, DL probably is paying more like $23M per this industry source) is better than the line going to near idle and potentially leading to the insolvency/breakup of Bombardier.

Boeing of course is worried that once the C-series starts proving to be a good performer (Swiss seems to be liking them) the CS300 will give the 737max7.5 a solid run for the money. Somehow Boeing will survive that, since it sells like crap anyway. All the money will be in the Max8 and Max10.

Mountain Explorer

True, but the governments of Canada and Quebec have been giving Bombardier large interest-free loans to help them get the C-Series going. One could argue those are subsidies. Bombardier using govt subsidies to sell below market value would give Boeing a very legitimate case for illegal trading.

Somewhat ironically, it's the same argument that DL is trying to make against ME3

24left

Somewhat ironically....

Well, SWISS and Air Baltic seem quite happy with their C Series

micstatic

Boeing has become somewhat cuckold as of late. Between airbus with the a321, a350 and a330. While the c series plane hasn't sold in number,passengers and bean counters will love it. I see that Boeing has no problem playing both sides of the fence with financing. Now they speak against the ut Rockwell deal. I used to respect them as a company and even their products way more than I do now.

readywhenyouare

I think the C Series will be a great aircraft for Delta. But I don't agree that they make good fleet decisions. They really dropped the ball with not taking the 787. All major airlines worldwide have the 787 in their fleet. Delta is at a disadvantage. Airlines like United and AA get to test the waters with the 788 into new markets. All of Delta's long range aircraft are enormous and only getting bigger with the 330neo and A350. Smaller is always better. You can always jack up the price to suit demand with a smaller aircraft but you will be selling seats at bargain basement prices during the next recession to fill those huge airplanes.

Longboater

Mark my words, Delta will have the 787 in their fleet, but it will be the 787-10 replacing the 767-400ER in around 2030 or so. The tit for tat replacement makes all too much sense, especially since I'm sure Boeing will offer a massive discount to win over Delta. When Delta orders ~50 797s, I'm sure your comments will be substantially different.

MCO Flyer

I agree with this 100%. The C-Series is a perfect plane for DL but I believe the 787 would have been a muc better replacement for the 767 than the 339. The 339 is a little to big and lacks the range of a 788. I have a feeling DL will eventually order the 787 to replace the rest of the 767s but I feel the 788 would have opened up many new routes as a 767 replacement.