manacit

Delta released a press release indicating this is only preliminary, and the final results wouldn’t be out until early 2018.

Say what what you will, but it’s teling that Boeing doesn’t even have a plane to rival the CS100 and are still able to meddle to this level.

jinglish

219%. You have to be F***ING kidding me.

captaink

Yeah, I imagine when Canada slaps similar duties on the 737 series (citing the Boeing 73W giveaway to United), things might change...

jinglish

Canada had already threatened to cancel its Super Hornet order before this ruling.

WhiskeyBravo

This is brutal. Bombardier engineers an excellent airplane in its own right and is now punished for it and it won't see the light of day in the USA.

readywhenyouare

I'm not liking this. Bombardier builds nice aircraft. Leave them alone and put the duty on Airbus.

RaflW

The usually staid, industry-focused Leeham News called the tariff ruling a 'shocker.'

I would not be at all surprised to see PM Trudeau making rather a lot of noise about their fighter jet campaign. PM May will have serious disappointment and maybe even coalition risk on her hands from Northern Ireland (where jobs are a challenge and the C-Series wings are made).

I know we try to stick to FF program info here, but this strikes me as ham-handed by a newish and demonstrably clumsy WH admin that wants to win PR 'battles' while not understanding the larger trade wars at risk.

KDCAflyer

So does that kill the order then?

If so, what TF is Delta supposed to do now? MD88s flying until 2030 at this rate.

Mountain Explorer

I don't find this at all surprising. The governments of Quebec and Canada both gave Bombardier large subsidies to get the C-Series going. It's well know that the sale to DL was below market value (and likely below cost for that matter).

Add to that a staunchly America-first administration, and I find this very predictable.

The ruling is not yet final. If it holds however, my guess is that DL predicted it too, and included an escape clause in the purchase agreement. There's no way they're gonna pay the duty.

DA201

I agree with this. If it was the CS300, maybe Boeing could argue the 737 MAX 7 competes. Even then, the CS300 is a better airplane from a CASM standpoint. My guess is Boeing will eventually backdown because of pressure from Canada and the UK. There comes a point where the negatives outweigh the positives.

220% is absolutely insane. I thought the highest they would go would be ~130%, with a more realistic number being ~60%. This is ridiculous. Boeing wants to abandon the <150 seat market and should spend their time fighting sales campaigns from Airbus.

Also, I feel like this is only happening to DL because they have no Boeing widebodies on order (all Airbus) and their only Boeing orders are for 737-900ERs that they got a great price for. I think Boeing views them as an Airbus customer going forward and doesn't see any big loss in potential business. If this was UA or AA, I think Boeing would leave them alone because they have large Boeing orders as it is.

readywhenyouare

That would be amazing! ❤️

channa

Delta has come out strongly against government subsidies. I would expect they are ecstatic with this motion, and they should be happy to pay the duty.

RaflW

I am very firmly NOT predicting this, but the E195-E2 seats about 120 in two class config, if I am reading the info correctly. The range is quite a bit less with the E195, so if DL was thinking the CS100 for 'long-thin' (in domestic terms), the E-jet is really not a fit.

But as an MD88 replacement in the seat range of the CS100, or modest capacity step up on current 717 routes, it's not nuts. I just don't get the sense DL mgt is a huge fan of the E-jets. Certainly not compared to the deal they thought they had for the C-series.

I've seen some questions on industry news sites whether DL could get their deposits back from Bombardier or not. G-d help us, I hope they don't convert to CR9s.

Mountain Explorer

I see DL as an opportunistic buyer. I don't think DL needs these planes (DL is currently receiving new planes at a significantly faster rate than it is retiring old planes). If this deal falls thru, DL will simply wait for the next great deal opportunity. I don't foresee them placing an emergency order for some other plane or cancelling a bunch of routes.

Longboater

The E195-E2 has 20% less range than the CS100, but its still 2,450 nm, longer than the A321 CEO without auxiliary tanks. So for a route like, RDU-SEA, it would struggle. However, the E195-E2 is right in the middle of capacity between the CS100 and CS300. Additionally, its about 15% smaller than the 737-7 MAX. I find it very hard to believe Boeing would complain to the Commerce Department about the E195-E2. Delta could very easily get a good deal on the E195-E2. Other than ILFC and Aircastle, only Azul has ordered the aircraft, with just 30 orders. Delta could scoop right in for 75 aircraft at a cheaper price, the list price for the E195-E2 is lower than the CS100, and daring to moan. The downside is Delta would have to wait an additional year at least for these aircraft. Quick note, these aircraft would be replacing the M88s. Its been taken up by the 96 A321s and 46 739s on order as only two 757s, three 767s, and three A320s are left to be retired, which will be over the next five months. These aircraft would allow Delta to park more 50 seaters, and Delta could very well decide to park the entire 50 seat fleet.