Oct 17, 2021, 9:32 am
Last edit by: bgriff
Can I SDC and stay in F/D1 after applying an RUC? Maybe. Most recent data points (please update as information changes):
Via phone / chat agents: Some success, but often requires multiple HUCA and many agents believe the answer is no. Details further down this Wiki about how to guide agents to look in their system if you find a friendly agent, but this information may change.
Via airport agents: Few data points but likely to be the same as phone/chat agents.
Via app SDC function: As of mid 2023, app SDC is altogether broken.
Via web SDC function during check-in: Appears that this may work, with at least one successful data point. Likely the best option right now (as of late 2023). See example of what to look for.
Via same-day standby: No. Upgrade list is cleared before standby list so there would generally be no premium seats left by the time you clear. If normal paid premium cabin SDC rules are followed, standby shouldn't be necessary anyway unless you are trying to get onto a flight that is sold out up front at the time you make the request.
If you need to involve an agent (for example if changing from a nonstop to connecting itinerary or taking advantage of the provision to SDC a first class ticket to any lower cabin with last seat availability), the following information may be useful in guiding the agent to the correct policy:
Via phone / chat agents: Some success, but often requires multiple HUCA and many agents believe the answer is no. Details further down this Wiki about how to guide agents to look in their system if you find a friendly agent, but this information may change.
Via airport agents: Few data points but likely to be the same as phone/chat agents.
Via app SDC function: As of mid 2023, app SDC is altogether broken.
Via web SDC function during check-in: Appears that this may work, with at least one successful data point. Likely the best option right now (as of late 2023). See example of what to look for.
Via same-day standby: No. Upgrade list is cleared before standby list so there would generally be no premium seats left by the time you clear. If normal paid premium cabin SDC rules are followed, standby shouldn't be necessary anyway unless you are trying to get onto a flight that is sold out up front at the time you make the request.
If you need to involve an agent (for example if changing from a nonstop to connecting itinerary or taking advantage of the provision to SDC a first class ticket to any lower cabin with last seat availability), the following information may be useful in guiding the agent to the correct policy:
I ended up speaking to a someone at the Rates and Reissues desk. They confirmed that KM (Knowledge Management) VERY clearly delineates the difference between complimentary upgrades and Mileage/Upgrade Certificate upgrades. It clearly states that comp upgrades use OU or RU inventory and DO NOT require ticket reissue and no compensation has been collected by Delta thus the SDC is only eligible for ticketed economy class. But Mileage/Upgrade Certificates involve an exchange of value and SDC is allowed if ANY inventory in the premium CABIN (not class) is available. It notes that this is indicated by OY, RY, or SY class and is reissued.
He said to have any agent look in KM under:
“Same-Day Travel Changes (SDT)” page and go to the “Same Day Confirmed: Program Details” section and then scroll down to the “Upgrades” heading. There is cleary lists the different rules for SDC on comp upgrade and "Upgrade Certificate or Mileage"
He said the wording is so clear there should be absolutely no issue with SDC on GUC/RUC. He did note that the verbage in KM is “Upgrade Certificate” not GUC or RUC in that particular area.
He also said that KM clearly states that D1 to FC SDC is allowed (requires manual reissue), but FC to D1 is NOT allowed. He indicated though that since the fare bucket alignment across intl and domestic flights a few years ago, its not immediately apparent to agents the difference between a D1 domestic flight and a FC domestic flight without a few extra clicks and that he sees FC to D1 SDC reissues happen frequently where they shouldn’t.
He said to have any agent look in KM under:
“Same-Day Travel Changes (SDT)” page and go to the “Same Day Confirmed: Program Details” section and then scroll down to the “Upgrades” heading. There is cleary lists the different rules for SDC on comp upgrade and "Upgrade Certificate or Mileage"
He said the wording is so clear there should be absolutely no issue with SDC on GUC/RUC. He did note that the verbage in KM is “Upgrade Certificate” not GUC or RUC in that particular area.
He also said that KM clearly states that D1 to FC SDC is allowed (requires manual reissue), but FC to D1 is NOT allowed. He indicated though that since the fare bucket alignment across intl and domestic flights a few years ago, its not immediately apparent to agents the difference between a D1 domestic flight and a FC domestic flight without a few extra clicks and that he sees FC to D1 SDC reissues happen frequently where they shouldn’t.
SDC while using Regional Upgrade Certificates (RUC) Definitive Thread
Sep 21, 2021, 6:45 am
#61
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Many people would see this as gaming the system. If you are going to game the system, do it smart. You may think it doesn’t matter, but reports from the field where people are finding ways around issues to reach a result delta didn’t intend, will have an effect on policy. I don’t think taking a “legalistic” approach will be effective in the long run, it will just cause the rules to change.
Sep 21, 2021, 10:18 am
#62
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Sure, but making 2 calls is slightly different qualitatively than not asking at all? Of course that was before COVID-era hold times. If I tried this today I'd probably do it in a single call.
Sep 21, 2021, 11:20 am
#63
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles
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Sure there's evidence. If Delta intended for you to use a certificate on the initial flight, it would have made seats available. It's clearly a work around. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying be smart and don't screw up the current benefits by being stupid because you think you are right and entitled.
I'm 100% sure they will change the rules at some point, but we don't need to hasten that day. Every rule changes at some point. Inline with my experiences chatting and interacting with ATOBTTR, he was thoughtful in his approach regarding this issue.
Sep 21, 2021, 11:42 am
#65
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Location: Los Angeles
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Why would they? As it relates to paid premium tickets, the SDC policy and benefit is very clearly laid out on Delta.com. If you are talking about SDC on a ticket upgraded using a certificate, it becomes less obvious. You should still be able to do it, but if you find a clueless agent, arguing with them is much less likely to produce a positive result. The main reason being the language on Delta.com does not explicitly include RUC upgraded tickets. It is implicit based on the statement that complimentary medallion upgrades are excluded. Once upon a time it was explicit in the reference materials available to agents, but they had to dig to find it. An agent sent me a copy and paste of the language, but it was in an old system that I understand they now no longer use. HUCA or just call Singapore for RUC related issues. They seemed to be trained well on this issue.
Sep 21, 2021, 3:58 pm
#66
Join Date: Feb 2019
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The violation of the spirit of the rules is just something you've imagined for some reason I don't understand..
Sep 21, 2021, 4:20 pm
#68
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Sep 26, 2021, 6:35 am
#69
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Just as a datapoint, I ran into an agent today while doing an SDC on a flight with a companion that had confirmed RUCs with tickets reissued, and this agent was a rules stickler (would not waive the $75 fee for the non-status companion to SDC, and even "checked" to verify the rules), and did not blink at all at SDCing to flights that absolutely did not have RUC upgrade inventory (I had already HUCA'd since the first agent I got was obviously new and was convinced we needed upgrade space).
Sep 26, 2021, 11:04 pm
#70
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In fact I did SDC in app from OAK-SLC-JFK paid F to OAK-LAX-JFK this summer.
Oct 10, 2021, 8:08 pm
#71
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Have a nonstop tomorrow, confirmed RUC at booking and ticket reissued.
Trying to SDC to an earlier flight with a connection through ATL to get in earlier, all of the earlier flights from my origin to ATL are completely sold out. Try to SDS, of course that doesn't work since the routing is changing. Try to SDC to a later flight through ATL with the connection I want so I can SDS to the earlier flight, agent won't let me claiming that I can't SDC from a non-stop to a connecting itinerary.
HUCA, 1 hour 30 minute call back time.
Call singapore, agent won't let me SDC into F (Y is sold out on the flight). HUCA, get same answer from 2nd singapore agent.
Of course this morning all of the flights had tons of seats, I think people coming from cancelled Southwest flights are sucking up all the seats.
Trying to SDC to an earlier flight with a connection through ATL to get in earlier, all of the earlier flights from my origin to ATL are completely sold out. Try to SDS, of course that doesn't work since the routing is changing. Try to SDC to a later flight through ATL with the connection I want so I can SDS to the earlier flight, agent won't let me claiming that I can't SDC from a non-stop to a connecting itinerary.
HUCA, 1 hour 30 minute call back time.Call singapore, agent won't let me SDC into F (Y is sold out on the flight). HUCA, get same answer from 2nd singapore agent.
Of course this morning all of the flights had tons of seats, I think people coming from cancelled Southwest flights are sucking up all the seats.
Oct 10, 2021, 8:29 pm
#72
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,097
Got the callback from the 1.5 hour quote hold time. This guy gave me a new one, he agrees that with a confirmed RUC I can SDC into any F seat, but he's saying that since there's no Y seat available on the flights I want, the system won't let him SDC me (he says he can only SDC me into a Y seat, and THEN confirm the upgrade into F, which sounds... bogus?)
Oct 10, 2021, 10:55 pm
#73
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Got the callback from the 1.5 hour quote hold time. This guy gave me a new one, he agrees that with a confirmed RUC I can SDC into any F seat, but he's saying that since there's no Y seat available on the flights I want, the system won't let him SDC me (he says he can only SDC me into a Y seat, and THEN confirm the upgrade into F, which sounds... bogus?)
Oct 11, 2021, 4:33 am
#74
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Got the callback from the 1.5 hour quote hold time. This guy gave me a new one, he agrees that with a confirmed RUC I can SDC into any F seat, but he's saying that since there's no Y seat available on the flights I want, the system won't let him SDC me (he says he can only SDC me into a Y seat, and THEN confirm the upgrade into F, which sounds... bogus?)