Oct 17, 2021, 9:32 am
Last edit by: bgriff
Can I SDC and stay in F/D1 after applying an RUC? Maybe. Most recent data points (please update as information changes):
Via phone / chat agents: Some success, but often requires multiple HUCA and many agents believe the answer is no. Details further down this Wiki about how to guide agents to look in their system if you find a friendly agent, but this information may change.
Via airport agents: Few data points but likely to be the same as phone/chat agents.
Via app SDC function: As of mid 2023, app SDC is altogether broken.
Via web SDC function during check-in: Appears that this may work, with at least one successful data point. Likely the best option right now (as of late 2023). See example of what to look for.
Via same-day standby: No. Upgrade list is cleared before standby list so there would generally be no premium seats left by the time you clear. If normal paid premium cabin SDC rules are followed, standby shouldn't be necessary anyway unless you are trying to get onto a flight that is sold out up front at the time you make the request.
If you need to involve an agent (for example if changing from a nonstop to connecting itinerary or taking advantage of the provision to SDC a first class ticket to any lower cabin with last seat availability), the following information may be useful in guiding the agent to the correct policy:
Via phone / chat agents: Some success, but often requires multiple HUCA and many agents believe the answer is no. Details further down this Wiki about how to guide agents to look in their system if you find a friendly agent, but this information may change.
Via airport agents: Few data points but likely to be the same as phone/chat agents.
Via app SDC function: As of mid 2023, app SDC is altogether broken.
Via web SDC function during check-in: Appears that this may work, with at least one successful data point. Likely the best option right now (as of late 2023). See example of what to look for.
Via same-day standby: No. Upgrade list is cleared before standby list so there would generally be no premium seats left by the time you clear. If normal paid premium cabin SDC rules are followed, standby shouldn't be necessary anyway unless you are trying to get onto a flight that is sold out up front at the time you make the request.
If you need to involve an agent (for example if changing from a nonstop to connecting itinerary or taking advantage of the provision to SDC a first class ticket to any lower cabin with last seat availability), the following information may be useful in guiding the agent to the correct policy:
I ended up speaking to a someone at the Rates and Reissues desk. They confirmed that KM (Knowledge Management) VERY clearly delineates the difference between complimentary upgrades and Mileage/Upgrade Certificate upgrades. It clearly states that comp upgrades use OU or RU inventory and DO NOT require ticket reissue and no compensation has been collected by Delta thus the SDC is only eligible for ticketed economy class. But Mileage/Upgrade Certificates involve an exchange of value and SDC is allowed if ANY inventory in the premium CABIN (not class) is available. It notes that this is indicated by OY, RY, or SY class and is reissued.
He said to have any agent look in KM under:
“Same-Day Travel Changes (SDT)” page and go to the “Same Day Confirmed: Program Details” section and then scroll down to the “Upgrades” heading. There is cleary lists the different rules for SDC on comp upgrade and "Upgrade Certificate or Mileage"
He said the wording is so clear there should be absolutely no issue with SDC on GUC/RUC. He did note that the verbage in KM is “Upgrade Certificate” not GUC or RUC in that particular area.
He also said that KM clearly states that D1 to FC SDC is allowed (requires manual reissue), but FC to D1 is NOT allowed. He indicated though that since the fare bucket alignment across intl and domestic flights a few years ago, its not immediately apparent to agents the difference between a D1 domestic flight and a FC domestic flight without a few extra clicks and that he sees FC to D1 SDC reissues happen frequently where they shouldn’t.
He said to have any agent look in KM under:
“Same-Day Travel Changes (SDT)” page and go to the “Same Day Confirmed: Program Details” section and then scroll down to the “Upgrades” heading. There is cleary lists the different rules for SDC on comp upgrade and "Upgrade Certificate or Mileage"
He said the wording is so clear there should be absolutely no issue with SDC on GUC/RUC. He did note that the verbage in KM is “Upgrade Certificate” not GUC or RUC in that particular area.
He also said that KM clearly states that D1 to FC SDC is allowed (requires manual reissue), but FC to D1 is NOT allowed. He indicated though that since the fare bucket alignment across intl and domestic flights a few years ago, its not immediately apparent to agents the difference between a D1 domestic flight and a FC domestic flight without a few extra clicks and that he sees FC to D1 SDC reissues happen frequently where they shouldn’t.
SDC while using Regional Upgrade Certificates (RUC) Definitive Thread
Sep 19, 2021, 9:42 pm
#47
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I assume this one is heavily agent dependent... but I know for a fact that if I use an RUC (and clear the whole way) that I can change to any first class flight on that day no problemo.
What happens if I clear LGA to ATL at booking using RUC, and am waitlisted for ATL to HNL - can I use my first segment being "true first class" by virtue of the RUC; to SDC onto any flight that has first class to HNL available? i.e. rather than rolling the dice on ATL to HNL on the day of travel with an RUC waitlist - could I SDC to LGA to SLC to HNL and get first class the whole way?
What happens if I clear LGA to ATL at booking using RUC, and am waitlisted for ATL to HNL - can I use my first segment being "true first class" by virtue of the RUC; to SDC onto any flight that has first class to HNL available? i.e. rather than rolling the dice on ATL to HNL on the day of travel with an RUC waitlist - could I SDC to LGA to SLC to HNL and get first class the whole way?
IMO the interesting question, and it's mostly an academic one, is: if you have cleared only one leg is if it's treated as a broken fare. In which case you could SDC LGA-ATL to any other LGA-ATL or LGA-XXX-ATL in F, but would still have to SDC the ATL-HNL flight in coach and following the coach SDC rules.
But If I had to guess, especially given DL IT, there is zero chance it handles this situation automatically in any shape or form, so you have to get an agent to process it manually, in which case again zero chance IMO of getting F the whole way unless you are a *really* good sweet talker
You *might* get them to give you F on LGA-SLC and coach SLC-HNL.
Sep 20, 2021, 12:20 am
#48
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I assume in the scenario under discussion there is currently no available inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, so the question is whether, just because you have a cleared RUC on the first leg, you can SDC and scam the system into giving you F the entire way on your new itinerary just because you currently have the first flight in F. I would be astonished if this worked.
The question is, when there is F inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, what happens? Do you get F on the first leg, then waitlist the RUC for the second? Do you waitlist the RUC on both? Or will they give you F on both? And what needs to be available to do the SDC in the first place; even if there's OY availability on both flights, does that suffice?
Sep 20, 2021, 7:35 am
#49
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If there's no available F inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, you couldn't SDC in F even if you had a full F paid ticket.
The question is, when there is F inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, what happens? Do you get F on the first leg, then waitlist the RUC for the second? Do you waitlist the RUC on both? Or will they give you F on both? And what needs to be available to do the SDC in the first place; even if there's OY availability on both flights, does that suffice?
The question is, when there is F inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, what happens? Do you get F on the first leg, then waitlist the RUC for the second? Do you waitlist the RUC on both? Or will they give you F on both? And what needs to be available to do the SDC in the first place; even if there's OY availability on both flights, does that suffice?
Sep 20, 2021, 9:38 am
#50
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without knowing this, it's pointless to even speculate on the rest of your question.
Sep 20, 2021, 9:44 am
#51
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I assume in the scenario under discussion there is currently no available inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, so the question is whether, just because you have a cleared RUC on the first leg, you can SDC and scam the system into giving you F the entire way on your new itinerary just because you currently have the first flight in F. I would be astonished if this worked.
If there's no available F inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, you couldn't SDC in F even if you had a full F paid ticket.
The question is, when there is F inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, what happens? Do you get F on the first leg, then waitlist the RUC for the second? Do you waitlist the RUC on both? Or will they give you F on both? And what needs to be available to do the SDC in the first place; even if there's OY availability on both flights, does that suffice?
The question is, when there is F inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, what happens? Do you get F on the first leg, then waitlist the RUC for the second? Do you waitlist the RUC on both? Or will they give you F on both? And what needs to be available to do the SDC in the first place; even if there's OY availability on both flights, does that suffice?
I assume in the scenario under discussion there is currently no available inventory on the SLC-HNL leg, so the question is whether, just because you have a cleared RUC on the first leg, you can SDC and scam the system into giving you F the entire way on your new itinerary just because you currently have the first flight in F. I would be astonished if this worked.
IMO the interesting question, and it's mostly an academic one, is: if you have cleared only one leg is if it's treated as a broken fare. In which case you could SDC LGA-ATL to any other LGA-ATL or LGA-XXX-ATL in F, but would still have to SDC the ATL-HNL flight in coach and following the coach SDC rules.
IMO the interesting question, and it's mostly an academic one, is: if you have cleared only one leg is if it's treated as a broken fare. In which case you could SDC LGA-ATL to any other LGA-ATL or LGA-XXX-ATL in F, but would still have to SDC the ATL-HNL flight in coach and following the coach SDC rules.
Sep 20, 2021, 10:30 am
#52
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What I have done (and I presume I'm not the only one) is there have been times where I've been on flights with an RUC that's still wait-listed yet has open F seats while in the SDC window and I've SDC'ed to a flight with RUC availability, had the RUC clear into F, and then SDC'ed back to my original flight but now in F.
Sep 20, 2021, 1:18 pm
#53
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The way I read Zorak's post is that "no available inventory" referred to RUC inventory specifically, not open F seats.
What I have done (and I presume I'm not the only one) is there have been times where I've been on flights with an RUC that's still wait-listed yet has open F seats while in the SDC window and I've SDC'ed to a flight with RUC availability, had the RUC clear into F, and then SDC'ed back to my original flight but now in F.
What I have done (and I presume I'm not the only one) is there have been times where I've been on flights with an RUC that's still wait-listed yet has open F seats while in the SDC window and I've SDC'ed to a flight with RUC availability, had the RUC clear into F, and then SDC'ed back to my original flight but now in F.
Sep 20, 2021, 8:34 pm
#55
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Sep 20, 2021, 8:38 pm
#56
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I’m thinking my experience with the “two-step” — and that exact logic — was back when you could still SDC paid F to D1
I was able to get a PM agent to add a segment (most likely DCA-MSP-SEA to DCA-ATL-LAX-SEA) and then change the routing to DCA-JFK-LAX-SEA
I was able to get a PM agent to add a segment (most likely DCA-MSP-SEA to DCA-ATL-LAX-SEA) and then change the routing to DCA-JFK-LAX-SEA
Sep 20, 2021, 10:50 pm
#57
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Many people would see this as gaming the system. If you are going to game the system, do it smart. You may think it doesn’t matter, but reports from the field where people are finding ways around issues to reach a result delta didn’t intend, will have an effect on policy. I don’t think taking a “legalistic” approach will be effective in the long run, it will just cause the rules to change.
Sep 21, 2021, 1:27 am
#58
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The way I read Zorak's post is that "no available inventory" referred to RUC inventory specifically, not open F seats.
What I have done (and I presume I'm not the only one) is there have been times where I've been on flights with an RUC that's still wait-listed yet has open F seats while in the SDC window and I've SDC'ed to a flight with RUC availability, had the RUC clear into F, and then SDC'ed back to my original flight but now in F.
What I have done (and I presume I'm not the only one) is there have been times where I've been on flights with an RUC that's still wait-listed yet has open F seats while in the SDC window and I've SDC'ed to a flight with RUC availability, had the RUC clear into F, and then SDC'ed back to my original flight but now in F.
Sep 21, 2021, 5:56 am
#59
Join Date: Feb 2019
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sure, they might, but some agents push back on other things that are within policy, like SDCing to any open F seat on a paid ticket, and yet nobody suggests not asking for that.
Sep 21, 2021, 5:57 am
#60
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,097
sure, maybe
they might also change the rules even if you don't do those things!
there's no evidence that this is a "result that delta didn't intend."