PV_Premier

meanwhile, i get a $329 FCM offer on a 3.5hr leg of a 4 segment, $660 domestic round trip ticket yesterday

pbjag

Interesting FCM for my flight yesterday.
I bought the ticket 7 days in advance. Coach (M) fare was $312 (ow) and First was $412. I bought the coach ticket and logged back in to buy up for the extra $100 (prefer to handle the buy up separately.)

Lo and behold, when I logged back in, the buy-up offer for my ticket was now only $50.50 Thanks, Delta

jamesteroh

Am flying to DC in a couple weeks. First class was $350 more for a short flight from DTW to DCA and First Class to DUL was only $20 more than the coach fare to DCA.

First class is wide open on the DCA flights so I'll just do a SDC at t-24 for the DCA flights. I want some flexibility on the outbound flight anyway and I won't have to play the lottery of making sure the booked fare class was open.

When I was looking at LAS/LAX fares last weekend the difference between coach and first on a half hour flight that probably won't even have a drink service is $350 lol

CDKing

I know its OT but DL cant be making much money from the bank on $25K spend. Its not like the bank is buying miles from DL for more than 1-2 cents per mile, if that. Makes that MQD waiver seem silly.

pbarnette

DL's operating margin for 2014 is targeted at 13%. That means the operating margin on the minimum for DM is around $1,625. Given the MQM requirements, the waiver only need make up a fraction of the spend.

Yes, at the margins there may be mileage runners that use a combination of super low fares and the waiver to achieve status, but the waiver likely achieves the desired purpose, which is to goose elites with marginal profitability over the limit if they add CC spend. It isn't silly at all. What is silly, though, is looking at decisions through the FT lens, as if more than a tiny fraction of elites get there by mileage running.

sethb

DL doesn't "award card spend"; it sells benefits to Amex for money. That money is profit.

pbarnette

Out of curiosity, why are we even discussing MQDs in a thread about fares that yield around 0.25 MQDs per mile flown? Is this another example of the lack of basic math skills on FT? Is it another example of a certain whiny contingent throwing the same whines at every thread, hoping it sticks?

I'm genuinely curious what the anti-FCM crowd wants.

DL is selling F seats at the going rate. Period. DL is selling F seats at more than double the price they say qualifies you for elite. Period. DL is selling F in this case at around 2.5x their PRASM. Period. None of the whines acknowledge these truths, instead obfuscating it.

Honestly, the whining is tiresome. It is tiresome because it is dishonest. It pretends that these fares are "cheap", when they are not. They are in line with what the market will bear. They are a substantial premium over DL's normal PRASM. They are, in fact, premium fares. Period. No amount of complaining from folks upset because they are going to miss an upgrade changes the reality that these are, by every reasonable metric, appropriate fares.

northwest_buckeye

I have absolutely scored a ~$50 r/t upgrade on a ~$400 original fare. Back in October, I had a multi-city itin, DTW-BNA (Tues, Oct 28th) then ATL-DTW (Sun, Nov 2nd.) Paid $417 for the trip when I booked. A few days before departure, I was looking on the app and was offered a r/t upgrade for $58. Essentially $29 each way... So obviously, I jumped on it.

And it certainly wasn't the first time... Had a similar experience in August on DTW-FLL and in February/March on DTW-TPA.

Bowgie

Nobody has problem with an upsell based on the fare difference between coach and first. What upsets people is Delta selling *ultra-cheap* upgrades out from under Medallions.

United does this. Check out the thread on TOD's (tens of dollars), and now Delta does this, too. This is not "selling First at the going rate." It selling First way below the going rate instead of letting the inventory go to Medallion upgrades.

Upgrades are a published Medallions benefit. Instead, Delta is selling them to random flyers for "Tens of Dollars".

injera

By definition - isnt 'the going rate' the price which the market will bear?

Don't get me wrong, it'll suck if my UG % goes from 50% in GM in 2014 (90% on short-hop flights) to 10% in GM in 2015 and it would probably have me (and others) question my loyalty to Delta. but they'll still have the bulk of business as there are many other reasons why i choose to fly Delta and have status.

But i dont think its reasonable to expect Delta to sell F for $500 more than Y on a 60 minute flight just so we can get more upgrades. When your seat is 2 inches wider and you get a PDB and maybe one extra cocktail in air (since EC will now include free drinks) $50 probably is the right price.

PV_Premier

Do these Fcm at online checkin change the fare basis to accrue more MQM, and do they result in more MQD?

pbarnette

These fares aren't "ultra-cheap".

That isn't true. Others in this thread have noted that these prices are roughly in line with what you would pay to buy F outright.

This is an 800 mile flight. There is likely near-zero demand for premium seats. "tens of dollars" is about the right price if the goal is to sell the seats.

injera

THIS

Earlier this year (to settle an argument with a friend) I posted here asking people how much they'd consider paying for a short flight (LGA->BUF) medium flight (DTW->MIA) or a longer flight (JFK->SFO).

Most people responded that they'd be willing to pay btw $0-25 for an upgrade on a short flight. So if Delta can get $50 for the seat it sounds like they're getting ABOVE the market price.

sethb

I think it would be nice if I didn't lose an upgrade to someone who bought F for $500 when the cheapest Y was $800. (Yes, that happened; I don't know that I was the DM who would have gotten the F upgrade, but I know the person who bought the F seat and his price options.)

By definition, the price they sell at is the going rate. So what?

I think a $-300 upgrade from Y to F is cheap. You are welcome to disagree.

I think even a $50 upgrade on a 3-hour flight that costs $400 in Y is pretty cheap. You are still welcome to disagree.

Want Loyalty, Buy Loyalty. Or sell the F seats for $50 and cease getting loyalty from the people you sold them out from under. DL is doing very well in the short term, apparently not recognizing (or caring) that it's a lot cheaper in the long term to keep customers than to attract them.

jrl767

+1