Delta deems NRT-BKK passengers unimportant
Oct 9, 2014, 4:51 pm
#31
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Oct 9, 2014, 5:12 pm
#33
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This shocks me a bit. A few weeks ago i was flying JFK-NRT-SIN with a ~2 hour layover in NRT. The JFK-NRT leg was also delayed due to MX, 3 hours. As a result I would miss the connection, even tho we made up about a half hour in flight. Upon landing i found out they had held the entire NRT-SIN flight for 45 min to allow the ~15 of us to connect.
Oct 9, 2014, 5:14 pm
#34
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I think you're taking operational decisions way, way too personally. I have no idea why things happened exactly the way they did, but I have a strong suspicion that the thought process wasn't "those twelve people are particularly unimportant, we won't hold their flight."
While your BKK flight wasn't held, neither were the HKG or TPE flights - does that mean even more people were considered unimportant, or that they didn't consider the PDX-BKK pax specifically as unimportant as you assume? Given your arrival time, the PVG and SIN flights wouldn't have needed to be held to maintain connections, so it's possible those people might also have been "unimportant" and just got lucky.
It sucks that you missed your connection due to an inbound delay that was beyond your control. Plenty people both here and at Delta would be sympathetic to your delay and the inconvenience caused by the remediation when presented with only the facts of the situation. However, all of the emotional additions are painting a much less sympathetic picture, from the "DYKWIA" approach (yeah, that's what it sounds like when you feel the airline isn't treating you like you're important enough) to the accusation of "smug" crew when you openly admit having been rude/snarky to them.
You're likely due some compensation, and you'll likely get some. Why make it more than that?
While your BKK flight wasn't held, neither were the HKG or TPE flights - does that mean even more people were considered unimportant, or that they didn't consider the PDX-BKK pax specifically as unimportant as you assume? Given your arrival time, the PVG and SIN flights wouldn't have needed to be held to maintain connections, so it's possible those people might also have been "unimportant" and just got lucky.
It sucks that you missed your connection due to an inbound delay that was beyond your control. Plenty people both here and at Delta would be sympathetic to your delay and the inconvenience caused by the remediation when presented with only the facts of the situation. However, all of the emotional additions are painting a much less sympathetic picture, from the "DYKWIA" approach (yeah, that's what it sounds like when you feel the airline isn't treating you like you're important enough) to the accusation of "smug" crew when you openly admit having been rude/snarky to them.
You're likely due some compensation, and you'll likely get some. Why make it more than that?
We landed at 18:17 for an 18:45 flight, but since we made up time on the flight (expected 19:10 and maybe contributes to the pilots' snarky attitude, still shouldn't be laughing it off) and we could have made the flight with a minimal delay to door closure. That is what burns, they didn't have any intention of helping us make the flight -- just "go through customs, get your bag, take the bus for 1:15 hours, check-in (no Delta staff went along) at Haneda, and wait 4 hours for your flight". All while the aircraft was parked at the gate where we could see it through the window! Knowing how many times I've had delays at Narita, (including the outbound for an hour), they just had made the changes to our tickets already and did not care one iota about us getting to Bangkok on time.
Just angry I guess, I was so pro-Delta, selling my friends and colleagues, lining it all up with SkyBonus, etc. only to be let down with a singular uncaring attitude (the Japanese staff were nice but not empowered) by Delta. They really did not even try, had they made an effort but failed I might even be thanking them for trying. But that was not the case.
But limited options these days from BKK, so they don't really need to exert themselves for a few Delta-mechanically-delayed passengers.
Oct 9, 2014, 5:30 pm
#35
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Our flight 2014-10-07 from PDX (Portland) to Tokyo NRT was delayed by 2.5 hours by a mysterious mechanical issue (after the fact described as a fuel line issue when on the plane) with no announcements as to why.
So we fly out 2.5 hours late from Portland to Narita and somehow manage to arrive at 18:17 for an 18:45 connection to Bangkok but there is zero effort (and I do mean no effort whatsoever) to get the 12 passengers who were connecting onto that flight. All the boarding passes printed to go to ANA flight (including customs, a 1h15 bus ride, and 5 hour wait to take the flight) and absolutely ZERO effort to get us on a flight that could have been delayed by only 10 minutes and everybody would have made it. How do I know? I was rushed through Japanese customs onto a bus to Haneda and was with bags waiting for the bus by 19:02.
Delta Japan made the call that we could not make the flight and made zero effort to help us connect (oh they had already printed ANA boarding passes and lied to us that the plane had already left - unfortunately visible through the windows that it was still there) YET the other connecting flights all made it - they held the planes for Taipei as I understand there were about 40 people connecting to that flight.
The pilots passed by and said "have a good flight" and when I said "your 2 and a half hour delay cost us a 6 hour flight delay, they yelled back "it wasn't us" and LAUGHED as they went up the escalator!
I complained a lot but to no avail, but from being Delta Diamond with about 200k mqm this year it seemed nobody else dared speak up.
Even the Japanese manager (red coat) finally agreed they made a mistake by the time I was put on the bus at 19h10.
Delta doesn't care about passengers connecting, well, at least if you are less than 40.
So other than moving all my flights back to United/Thai/ANA what can I ask for compensation to stay on with Delta beyond burning my 900k miles banked and 30 year loyalty? I mean this seems to me a 75k, 100k mile compensation as they really misfired.
So we fly out 2.5 hours late from Portland to Narita and somehow manage to arrive at 18:17 for an 18:45 connection to Bangkok but there is zero effort (and I do mean no effort whatsoever) to get the 12 passengers who were connecting onto that flight. All the boarding passes printed to go to ANA flight (including customs, a 1h15 bus ride, and 5 hour wait to take the flight) and absolutely ZERO effort to get us on a flight that could have been delayed by only 10 minutes and everybody would have made it. How do I know? I was rushed through Japanese customs onto a bus to Haneda and was with bags waiting for the bus by 19:02.
Delta Japan made the call that we could not make the flight and made zero effort to help us connect (oh they had already printed ANA boarding passes and lied to us that the plane had already left - unfortunately visible through the windows that it was still there) YET the other connecting flights all made it - they held the planes for Taipei as I understand there were about 40 people connecting to that flight.
The pilots passed by and said "have a good flight" and when I said "your 2 and a half hour delay cost us a 6 hour flight delay, they yelled back "it wasn't us" and LAUGHED as they went up the escalator!
I complained a lot but to no avail, but from being Delta Diamond with about 200k mqm this year it seemed nobody else dared speak up.
Even the Japanese manager (red coat) finally agreed they made a mistake by the time I was put on the bus at 19h10.
Delta doesn't care about passengers connecting, well, at least if you are less than 40.
So other than moving all my flights back to United/Thai/ANA what can I ask for compensation to stay on with Delta beyond burning my 900k miles banked and 30 year loyalty? I mean this seems to me a 75k, 100k mile compensation as they really misfired.
I guess that's what anonymous internet forums are for....
Oct 9, 2014, 5:39 pm
#36
Formerly known as jbalis
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I am not sure this will make you feel better or worse....
I was on that PDX-NRT-BKK about 3 weeks ago, we had a 6.5hr delay in PDX, there were no connection options on ANA like you had, I was forced to wait for 22hrs at the Radisson in NRT waiting for the delta flight to bkk. No Thai airways option, no ANA, no KE, NOTHING. They bought my hotel and meals, after a few letters and calls I got a nice apology 400 voucher and 10k miles total (if you get a 100k miles, I will pay you to write letters for me next time). I was also in BE, also a DM. Ya it sucked and so does yours, not a Delta apologist, but it is what it is, I know I posted my story and with all the changes I am looking at other programs.
I was on that PDX-NRT-BKK about 3 weeks ago, we had a 6.5hr delay in PDX, there were no connection options on ANA like you had, I was forced to wait for 22hrs at the Radisson in NRT waiting for the delta flight to bkk. No Thai airways option, no ANA, no KE, NOTHING. They bought my hotel and meals, after a few letters and calls I got a nice apology 400 voucher and 10k miles total (if you get a 100k miles, I will pay you to write letters for me next time). I was also in BE, also a DM. Ya it sucked and so does yours, not a Delta apologist, but it is what it is, I know I posted my story and with all the changes I am looking at other programs.
Oct 9, 2014, 5:41 pm
#37
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Putting aside being rude to the flight crew, something that is never justified, OP simply misapprehends the system.
DL Operations makes the decision on holding flights, not some GA at NRT. The strong presumption is against holding flights for a whole variety of reasons. The most likely reason is that the onward flight was at risk of an oversell and when OP and his 11 comrades missed the T-30 deadline, they were off-loaded and the SB's loaded. Why hold an aircraft just so OP can run for it and find that his seat is gone?
If this were some massive 2-day mess, OP might see something in the 20K miles range. As it is, where he is acommodated with a PITA but workable service recovery, he will likely see a token 5K-10K miles as a gesture.
As to the snark to the Captain. That's just plain silly. The delay was caused by the fuel line, not the Captain. He is the one who spotted the problem. Perhaps he should have ignored it and flown anyway. Maybe you would have made it to NRT, maybe not. Did he really laugh at you or with you? Who knows. But, when you spend your life the way air crews do and get treated the way this one was, you either laugh or cry.
DL Operations makes the decision on holding flights, not some GA at NRT. The strong presumption is against holding flights for a whole variety of reasons. The most likely reason is that the onward flight was at risk of an oversell and when OP and his 11 comrades missed the T-30 deadline, they were off-loaded and the SB's loaded. Why hold an aircraft just so OP can run for it and find that his seat is gone?
If this were some massive 2-day mess, OP might see something in the 20K miles range. As it is, where he is acommodated with a PITA but workable service recovery, he will likely see a token 5K-10K miles as a gesture.
As to the snark to the Captain. That's just plain silly. The delay was caused by the fuel line, not the Captain. He is the one who spotted the problem. Perhaps he should have ignored it and flown anyway. Maybe you would have made it to NRT, maybe not. Did he really laugh at you or with you? Who knows. But, when you spend your life the way air crews do and get treated the way this one was, you either laugh or cry.
Oct 9, 2014, 6:48 pm
#38
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While some may not agree with it due to a 3 class UA service being replaced by a JV with ANA on this route, the OP since in BE was probably very lucky to be put on a *A airline. I bet any of the other 11+ "maybe" non elite flyer/members probably waited for the next days DL flight to BKK. Yeah its nice that DL flys NRT-BKK but being a *A flyer this to me highlights DL/Skyteams problem with IRROPS via NRT vs ICN/using KE as a hub, they have limited options, today for the OP they used *A non alliance connection for a person in BE, lucky him. I am surprised that a reroute for any of them wasn't through ICN but it highlights the disconnection among Skyteam members DL/KE looking from the outside as a *A/UA person. Hub to hub is critical with partners, DL doesn't have that in NRT and the OP got hosed. I really wonder how the other 11-12 people made it to BKK and when/how.
Oct 9, 2014, 7:11 pm
#39
Formerly known as jbalis
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While some may not agree with it due to a 3 class UA service being replaced by a JV with ANA on this route, the OP since in BE was probably very lucky to be put on a *A airline. I bet any of the other 11+ "maybe" non elite flyer/members probably waited for the next days DL flight to BKK. Yeah its nice that DL flys NRT-BKK but being a *A flyer this to me highlights DL/Skyteams problem with IRROPS via NRT vs ICN/using KE as a hub, they have limited options, today for the OP they used *A non alliance connection for a person in BE, lucky him. I am surprised that a reroute for any of them wasn't through ICN but it highlights the disconnection among Skyteam members DL/KE looking from the outside as a *A/UA person. Hub to hub is critical with partners, DL doesn't have that in NRT and the OP got hosed. I really wonder how the other 11-12 people made it to BKK and when/how.
Oct 9, 2014, 7:40 pm
#40
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While some may not agree with it due to a 3 class UA service being replaced by a JV with ANA on this route, the OP since in BE was probably very lucky to be put on a *A airline. I bet any of the other 11+ "maybe" non elite flyer/members probably waited for the next days DL flight to BKK. Yeah its nice that DL flys NRT-BKK but being a *A flyer this to me highlights DL/Skyteams problem with IRROPS via NRT vs ICN/using KE as a hub, they have limited options, today for the OP they used *A non alliance connection for a person in BE, lucky him. I am surprised that a reroute for any of them wasn't through ICN but it highlights the disconnection among Skyteam members DL/KE looking from the outside as a *A/UA person. Hub to hub is critical with partners, DL doesn't have that in NRT and the OP got hosed. I really wonder how the other 11-12 people made it to BKK and when/how.
So much for: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...atus-asia.html
Oct 9, 2014, 7:56 pm
#41
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Something seems not to have been brought up yet . . . .
How often do we see a post, something like - "55 minute connection at NRT, will I make it?" We always refer them to the master NRT connection thread (which I admittedly haven't looked at in a while).
That said, it's ALWAYS discussed how organized NRT is - that they know you're coming - they'll often times hold planes for people during IROPS - that they'll usher late comers thru fast track security - they'll have agents holding signs up for people going to specific destinations to expedite them. This culture goes way back to NWA, particularly because they know they have limited options for connecting pax at that hour.
I, too, would have expected / thought DL would hold the flight for that short amount of time, simply based on my experience of many, MANY times thru NRT, and all of the posts I've read here about it.
How often do we see a post, something like - "55 minute connection at NRT, will I make it?" We always refer them to the master NRT connection thread (which I admittedly haven't looked at in a while).
That said, it's ALWAYS discussed how organized NRT is - that they know you're coming - they'll often times hold planes for people during IROPS - that they'll usher late comers thru fast track security - they'll have agents holding signs up for people going to specific destinations to expedite them. This culture goes way back to NWA, particularly because they know they have limited options for connecting pax at that hour.
I, too, would have expected / thought DL would hold the flight for that short amount of time, simply based on my experience of many, MANY times thru NRT, and all of the posts I've read here about it.
Oct 9, 2014, 9:01 pm
#42
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For all the blather about ST supremacy in China, the Seamless Alliance sure has its knickers down in SE Asia.
So much for: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...atus-asia.html
So much for: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...atus-asia.html
I don't know about you, but I'd take dominance in a market 4 times that of the entirety of the ASEAN countries put together, plus a strong presence in the largest ASEAN country (both by population and GDP), as well as the third most populous country, over two quite small airlines in Thai and Singapore that are poorly positioned to carry any meaningful connecting traffic from European or American partners.
So, sure, SkyTeam is relatively "weak" in SE Asia. The reality, though, is that it doesn't really matter. Yes, that is unpopular among the FT set that is primarily concerned with redeeming miles, but it is the truth.
Oct 9, 2014, 9:11 pm
#43
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While some may not agree with it due to a 3 class UA service being replaced by a JV with ANA on this route, the OP since in BE was probably very lucky to be put on a *A airline. I bet any of the other 11+ "maybe" non elite flyer/members probably waited for the next days DL flight to BKK. Yeah its nice that DL flys NRT-BKK but being a *A flyer this to me highlights DL/Skyteams problem with IRROPS via NRT vs ICN/using KE as a hub, they have limited options, today for the OP they used *A non alliance connection for a person in BE, lucky him. I am surprised that a reroute for any of them wasn't through ICN but it highlights the disconnection among Skyteam members DL/KE looking from the outside as a *A/UA person. Hub to hub is critical with partners, DL doesn't have that in NRT and the OP got hosed. I really wonder how the other 11-12 people made it to BKK and when/how.
I guess that is another thing not to count on from them, where before they always seemed to make an effort now hope that you have more than 12 people going your way. Wonder what the threshold is? 20? 15 + 1 non rev pilot? etc...
Oct 9, 2014, 9:29 pm
#45
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As someone else mentioned, your flight blocked in only 13 minutes before the scheduled departure of your connection, and it did not appear that any other flights were held. While YOU may have been able to clear the transfer in 25 minutes, what if one of your 11 connecting companions required wheelchair assistance? Or had checked bags that needed to be collected and re-checked? Or any number of other things that would require a longer transfer time?
Wonder what the threshold is on holding an outbound flight? 10 minutes? 30? 2 hours if a double DM DYKWIA is en route?
DL is accountable to the MX delay, but the accommodations you were offered seem quite reasonable to me.
I hope I get some of your luck if this is really the worst thing that has happened to you in 30 years of flying, or even 200k BIS this year. Also, I can't see any good reason to have 900k RDM banked. Live a little.