Delta buys 49% of Virgin Atlantic (official)
Dec 12, 2012, 1:30 am
#241
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Mass
Programs: Independent
Posts: 4,829
I got an email today that says the following:
I wonder if Air France and VA having a true Prem. Econ product would ever pressure delta to offering a real one, rather than econ. comfort which falls well short. I really think there is a market for it. Plenty of people would be willing to pay $500-$1000 more than coach to sit in a domestic first class type seat for a long flight, but would never pay the $2-5 K more to sit in BE.
I wonder if Air France and VA having a true Prem. Econ product would ever pressure delta to offering a real one, rather than econ. comfort which falls well short. I really think there is a market for it. Plenty of people would be willing to pay $500-$1000 more than coach to sit in a domestic first class type seat for a long flight, but would never pay the $2-5 K more to sit in BE.
Dec 12, 2012, 1:50 am
#242
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Australia
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Posts: 2,440
PE is very profitable for VS - Even the new 330 aircraft which are the same airframe size as the A340300 have many more PE seats. aircraft.
A330-300 --- A340-300
33J --------- 34J
48W ------- 35W
185Y -------- 171J
Also the 747 fleet have about 60 odd PE seats too.
In the main cabin (Y) VS offer Exit seats for $$ as well as extra legroom seats that offer 3 Inches more leg room for $$.
Last edited by ANstar; Dec 12, 2012 at 1:56 am Reason: typo
Dec 12, 2012, 3:22 am
#243
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Dec 12, 2012, 5:09 am
#244
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I would love it if that were the case, but I think reality might be the other way around. I think that Delta might pressure Virgin to eliminate their true Premium Economy product and replace it with an economy plus product (albeit still using the Premium Economy name). Delta will see more value in those extra seats versus the increased revenue, especially when it might steal from business class sales. While they would never have that leverage with AF, They will with Virgin. Also, isn't Air Frances premium economy narrower than VS's?
If DL were to do something so short-sighted, then they'd deserve to make a massive loss on their investment. You have to remember, VS are up against BA - who have a real PE product, even if it is not as good as VS'. Bringing in a US style Y+ product, particuarly on the leisure routes, where PE is very popular would be business suicide.
Dec 12, 2012, 5:57 am
#245
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Programs: BA Exec Club Bronze, Hilton Diamond, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 1,257
Virgin's PE product is (in my view) by far the best across the pond. It's a real class of travel, rather than just Y+ offering:
- dedicated PE check-in desks
- priority boarding behind Upper Class
- priority baggage handling at destination, which in my experience works the majority of the time
- 2 dedicated CSS (Purser) cabin crew for the PE cabin, which is curtained off from the rest of Y
- dedicated loos (although can be a bit tricky in terms of encroachment by Y passengers)
- better food than Y, served with a table cloth, metal cutlery and china crockery.
- 38" pitch, 21" width etc.
Most of the above benefits aren't offered by the likes of BA with their WT+ product.
- dedicated PE check-in desks
- priority boarding behind Upper Class
- priority baggage handling at destination, which in my experience works the majority of the time
- 2 dedicated CSS (Purser) cabin crew for the PE cabin, which is curtained off from the rest of Y
- dedicated loos (although can be a bit tricky in terms of encroachment by Y passengers)
- better food than Y, served with a table cloth, metal cutlery and china crockery.
- 38" pitch, 21" width etc.
Most of the above benefits aren't offered by the likes of BA with their WT+ product.
Dec 12, 2012, 6:11 am
#246
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LHR
Programs: DL DM 2MM, BA Bronze, Various Hotels
Posts: 10,187
Virgin's PE product is (in my view) by far the best across the pond. It's a real class of travel, rather than just Y+ offering:
- dedicated PE check-in desks
- priority boarding behind Upper Class
- priority baggage handling at destination, which in my experience works the majority of the time
- 2 dedicated CSS (Purser) cabin crew for the PE cabin, which is curtained off from the rest of Y
- dedicated loos (although can be a bit tricky in terms of encroachment by Y passengers)
- better food than Y, served with a table cloth, metal cutlery and china crockery.
- 38" pitch, 21" width etc.
Most of the above benefits aren't offered by the likes of BA with their WT+ product.
- dedicated PE check-in desks
- priority boarding behind Upper Class
- priority baggage handling at destination, which in my experience works the majority of the time
- 2 dedicated CSS (Purser) cabin crew for the PE cabin, which is curtained off from the rest of Y
- dedicated loos (although can be a bit tricky in terms of encroachment by Y passengers)
- better food than Y, served with a table cloth, metal cutlery and china crockery.
- 38" pitch, 21" width etc.
Most of the above benefits aren't offered by the likes of BA with their WT+ product.
Dec 12, 2012, 6:28 am
#247
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Virgin's PE product is (in my view) by far the best across the pond. It's a real class of travel, rather than just Y+ offering:
- dedicated PE check-in desks
- priority boarding behind Upper Class
- priority baggage handling at destination, which in my experience works the majority of the time
- 2 dedicated CSS (Purser) cabin crew for the PE cabin, which is curtained off from the rest of Y
- dedicated loos (although can be a bit tricky in terms of encroachment by Y passengers)
- better food than Y, served with a table cloth, metal cutlery and china crockery.
- 38" pitch, 21" width etc.
- dedicated PE check-in desks
- priority boarding behind Upper Class
- priority baggage handling at destination, which in my experience works the majority of the time
- 2 dedicated CSS (Purser) cabin crew for the PE cabin, which is curtained off from the rest of Y
- dedicated loos (although can be a bit tricky in terms of encroachment by Y passengers)
- better food than Y, served with a table cloth, metal cutlery and china crockery.
- 38" pitch, 21" width etc.
Dec 12, 2012, 6:55 am
#249
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Programs: Executive Club Silver
Posts: 711
Now Delta have purchased 49% of VS and have announced a Joint Venture agreement I am rather chuft for both parties.
Delta benefits from a decent LHR network via VS, currently their network is poor at LHR compared to AA and UA/CO. Some people have suggested they will get the slots and run away with them however they only have a minority stake and they share their revenue anyway and will get a chunk of the VS revenue back from the 49% stake. Virgin has a lot bigger reputation in the British Isles and internationally that DL can utilise. Delta got a bargain price by buying when VS is in a slump, which they can recover from with new products, new 333 and revenues from partnerships.
Virgin is currently being squeezed by BA through their Joint Ventures and purchase of British Midland. A deal with DL will capture a lot of revenue synergies and potentially more feed through Skyteam if they choose to be apart of the alliance.
BA/AA may loose something in this deal, but due to their huge scope and controlling over half of LHR then it isn't a huge issue. I reckon Star and UA/CO will loose out on this deal. Star have been the second force at LHR until recently and many loyal VS flyers are also Star customers.
Lets not forget Gatwick, Manchester and Glasgow. VS have flights from there and have a very strong reputation throughout Britain and not just London. If DL ever wanted to expand non-LHR flying (currently ATL-MAN only non-LHR UK flight) then the deal will help.
Delta benefits from a decent LHR network via VS, currently their network is poor at LHR compared to AA and UA/CO. Some people have suggested they will get the slots and run away with them however they only have a minority stake and they share their revenue anyway and will get a chunk of the VS revenue back from the 49% stake. Virgin has a lot bigger reputation in the British Isles and internationally that DL can utilise. Delta got a bargain price by buying when VS is in a slump, which they can recover from with new products, new 333 and revenues from partnerships.
Virgin is currently being squeezed by BA through their Joint Ventures and purchase of British Midland. A deal with DL will capture a lot of revenue synergies and potentially more feed through Skyteam if they choose to be apart of the alliance.
BA/AA may loose something in this deal, but due to their huge scope and controlling over half of LHR then it isn't a huge issue. I reckon Star and UA/CO will loose out on this deal. Star have been the second force at LHR until recently and many loyal VS flyers are also Star customers.
Lets not forget Gatwick, Manchester and Glasgow. VS have flights from there and have a very strong reputation throughout Britain and not just London. If DL ever wanted to expand non-LHR flying (currently ATL-MAN only non-LHR UK flight) then the deal will help.
Dec 12, 2012, 8:13 am
#250
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Dec 12, 2012, 8:21 am
#251
[INACTIVE] Company Representative - Delta Air Lines
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 150
I'm just a little puzzled by JFK and EWR being the only two US airports mentioned. Does this mean these benefits will only be for NYC passengers and airports like LAX are left out of this JV agreement?
No LAX-LHR DL route was the only "missing link" for a lot of us based in LA.
No LAX-LHR DL route was the only "missing link" for a lot of us based in LA.
Some clarification -- this JV will include A combined trans-Atlantic network between the United Kingdom and North America with 31 peak-day round-trip flights (including two peak-day LAX-LHR flights). I just specifically mentioned JFK and EWR since I focus on New York.
Thanks,
DLCorpGalNYC
Dec 12, 2012, 8:24 am
#252
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Hi there,
Some clarification -- this JV will include A combined trans-Atlantic network between the United Kingdom and North America with 31 peak-day round-trip flights (including two peak-day LAX-LHR flights). I just specifically mentioned JFK and EWR since I focus on New York.
Thanks,
DLCorpGalNYC
Some clarification -- this JV will include A combined trans-Atlantic network between the United Kingdom and North America with 31 peak-day round-trip flights (including two peak-day LAX-LHR flights). I just specifically mentioned JFK and EWR since I focus on New York.
Thanks,
DLCorpGalNYC
Dec 12, 2012, 8:34 am
#253
[INACTIVE] Company Representative - Delta Air Lines
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Dec 12, 2012, 8:45 am
#254
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Dec 12, 2012, 8:55 am
#255
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