andymo99

Adam, just about everything that you say is incorrect. I went ahead and highlighted the portions that are completely erroneous.

(I removed the last few sentences which were just odd generalities about yield management that are also inaccurate but not really relevant to the conversation.)

adamj023

Absolutely incorrect. I know loads of people who travel of various professions and have actually booked tickets on behalf of other people before.

I know how the market works and I know who the players are in the consolidator business who are reliable. I wasn't giving out any specific consolidator information in this posting but I could have.

The poster found this fare from Expedia all by themselves and it looked good to them and I was pointing out correctly, this is a specially negotiated or consolidator fare and these fares can be booked without problem if you know the restrictions on these tickets beforehand so you know what you purchased. Some people will do worse with these because of lower or no mileage accruals or severe change fees or restrictions on these tickets or fare in the end will come out to higher than the firm initially disclosed. Expedia is a straight shooter and will give a good ticket at a good price rather than being one of these bad consolidators that hurt the industry.

The consumer must know what they are buying.

It is well established that Expedia, and Priceline have consolidator fares.

I use a search engine called Momondo for international routes at times:

http://www.momondo.com/

Priceline and Expedia fares are shown and these cheaper fares for international travel than the airlines are consolidator or specially negotiated fares. These firms are online players with lots of clout although the prices will still be slightly higher than the lowest cost players in the industry.

I am not wrong on anything I posted. If this was a published fare, then the Delta agent would be able to book it for them without issue. Delta has access to all PUBLISHED fares only and award travel, etc. etc...

Delta won't have access to non published fares, only the consolidators or firms which negotiated fares directly with the airlines for lower pricing will be able to get cheaper ticket prices.

Delta's Best Fare guarantee applies to tickets with the same fare codes. It is true that sometimes airlines themselves run their own fare sales and so booking directly could be cheaper than other firms.

One needs to shop to see where the best deal is.

"To qualify, the lower fare must be for the exact same Delta flights, dates, number of passengers, cabin, and booking/fare class as the original itinerary purchased that same day on delta.com."

Consolidator and specially negotiated fares are not the same fare codes.

Poster found a good deal and should go with it unless they want to argue with me like above poster and try to convince us that these fares simply do not exist if they understand the terms.

The whole jist of the topic was poster did not understand how the business worked and why this international ticket came out to so much cheaper to begin with from Expedia which is completely valid. It is not a scam.

One can call an airline up multiple times and get different prices each and every time. One needs to shop, use appropriate tools, and purchase at the price point they think is fair for the ticket.

Correction to note: When I used Expedia they were owned by Microsoft, but apparently they were spun off. But they are a legitimate reseller.

18sas

Not trying to argue with you, but all I can find on expedia is this: "If you booked your flight ticket yesterday or today, you may have the option to cancel your ticket for a full refund."

It doesn't say it is a guarantee, and I can't find any other information on which tickets are eligible and which aren't.

I booked a LHR sale fare also, which thankfully I don't have to cancel, and expedia is giving me the option to cancel for a full refund until 11:59P May 21. So that's more like a 72 hour risk free cancellation in this case.

But what's the rule? If I don't know what the rule is before I book and I can't find out if it applies until after I book, then it doesn't do me a lot of good. I'd be better off purchasing direct on dl.com, all else being equal.

adamj023

This poster who you quoted doesn't know what they are talking about.

As far as cancellation policies, there will always be restrictions on cancellations unless it is a full fare ticket directly from the airlines for the most part.

Don't expect deep discount airfares to refund tickets at all. If they even do have a 72 hour policy and if they abide by it, one would have to consider themselves very fortunate. Each firm has their own rules.

One would have to read the terms and conditions before you commit to purchasing the ticket to see the cancellation policies if any.

If the fares are equal, one does better going directly through the airline. No middleman involved.

But for $800 savings, one would need to understand what the differences are and determine if it is worthwhile to them. In many of these cases, the answer is yes.

Expedia is very generous for offering 72 hours to cancel I would say. It does seem like they reserve the right not to cancel at all if they wanted to, and this is actually the policy of many other firms. No cancellation from the time you book the flight through them.

adamj023

You are just making a fool of yourself for posting this in bright red trying to somehow convince others I am wrong. Not sure what your motives were with this.

Expedia got consolidator fares a long time ago. All the experts have written extensively on these matters including all the travel guides like Fodors, Frommers, and guys like Edward Hasbrouck who used to post an extensive Usenet FAQ on the travel forums. This is not secret information and travellers like myself and others use this information to get tickets at the best prices when we go somewhere. The internet has extensive information available for travellers.

http://www.hasbrouck.org/

Yes the internet has lots of information and there isn't one best way to purchase tickets. These forums aren't the appropriate place to post every since information data set available on this topic, but the poster is indeed getting a consolidator or specially negotiated fare from Expedia if they book the ticket. There is no other type of fare this can be.

Published means just that, that its published for all to see. Delta AND Expedia have access to all published fares. When the fares truly are significantly LOWER on Expedia it is because of specially negotiated or consolidator fares.

Published fares however are NOT cheaper on Expedia. If one actually thinks the published fare is cheaper because they run a search, it is because a fare actually wound up opening up during that time frame which is showing on the system. They could book it with the main airline site as well with less hassle and less restrictions and the like. But if 2 tickets were purchased at the same time with both Delta AND Expedia for a Published fare, Delta is going to be the cheapest price you can get and you have the Delta price policy to enforce it. It gets tricky because if a flight is say KLM, you may find it cheaper thru KLM than Delta if its a codeshared partner, but KLM has their own mileage rules with their tickets so it may give say 25% of the miles if you book it thru KLM and Delta may be a few dollars more giving you 100% of the miles. The percentage varies depending on the ticket based on KLM's own rules which they disclose.

With specially negotiated or consolidator fares, you are entering into a free market system which has many pitfalls but can be advantageous if you know what you are getting into.

FYI the internet fully discloses everything and one can go outside Flyertalk for all their information. Flyertalk is good at times for carrier specific information and some folks do at times give information that is extremely relevant.

andymo99

You've booked a bunch of travel in the past? Well then, I stand corrected I guess.


Again, congratulations on knowing the consolidators. I'm just saying Expedia isn't one of them. Perhaps you are confusing "aggregator" with "consolidator?"


It was not. Expedia does not have consolidator fares. Expedia sells published fares from GDS. Occasionally, there are flights available at a lower rate through either the opaque model (where you don't know flight details at time of booking - a la Priceline) or through packaging (with hotel, etc.) I can show neat examples of packages where hotel + flight costs less than flight alone! Regardless, this is not consolidator activity.


"Straight shooter" - I do agree!
"Not one of these bad consolidators" - again I agree, but EXPE is actually not a consolidator at all.


Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true!


You're not wrong on anything... you're wrong on everything!


Um, the gist of the topic is that you don't understand how the business works.


OK - let's all just be clear that this spinoff occurred 13 years ago.


Pot, kettle, black. Believe me, I have a far deeper understanding of this topic than you do.


24 hour voids are available on all tickets bought at Expedia. As mandated by the DOT.


24 hour voids are available on all tickets bought at Expedia. As mandated by the DOT.


Don't count on 72 hours from EXPE. Ever. You can count on 24 hours. And in truth, though not by requirement, you generally will get until midnight the next day (not sure which time zone applies).


Oh Adam, the fool is all you.


Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.


Categorically incorrect.


Categorically incorrect.

andymo99

24 hour voids are available on all tickets bought at Expedia. As mandated by the DOT.

Good question as to why EXPE is being a bit soft on the "may have the option" to cancel vs. explicitly stating at as a requirement. I'm guessing the lawyers had a crack at it and thought of situations where "booked your flight ticket yesterday or today" could be misconstrued based on time zones and the like, and they took the conservative route.

I might ask a friend who is a senior member of the legal team.

Regardless, 24 hour voids are available on all tickets bought at Expedia. As mandated by the DOT.
As for the "one week" provision, I haven't heard that as a restriction before, and I don't think it is used as an excuse not to refund. However, don't take my word for it. (Though I can investigate if it matters.)

andymo99

Folks, there is lots of misinformation on this thread that adamj023 states with great confidence and as fact.

I think that my posting history should give you better confidence in my accuracy. Oh, plus the fact that my paycheck comes from Expedia and has a reasonably senior title on it.


*Nevertheless, my posts are my opinions alone and do not represent the views of my employer.

gooselee

^

And I just ran out of popcorn, too.

adamj023

Expedia does indeed have consolidator fares and either you work for Expedia and are outright lying or are lying on the fact you work for Expedia to begin with.

"When my latest book, The Practical Nomad Guide to the Online Travel Marketplace (published in March 2001) went to press, both Travelocity.com and Expedia.com offered only published fares, so it appeared that Orbitz would be no worse than its largest competitors. Since then, however, both Travelocity.com and Expedia.com have added some consolidator prices (although only a few, and nowhere near as many as online and offline agencies that emphasize primarily consolidator prices). This change by the largest competitors means that Orbitz has launched with access to notably fewer prices than its largest competitors. In light of this, Orbitz claims to comprehensive airline ticket price information are at best misleading, at worst fraudulent.

[Published in edited form in Interactive Week magazine, 11 June 2001.]"

Edward Hasbrouck is not a liar and has extensively written on usenet his FAQ regarding airline tickets and has multiple books published.

I know with 100% certainty Expedia sells consolidator fares so again the fool is you for posting incorrect information.

The disadvantage of those fares is airline mile agreements and restrictions and the fact that you may have to deal with another party in order to change the ticket.

Expedia is a GDS (Global distribution system) but also does have consolidator fares as well in the database.

The last I read was that Orbitz only had published fares listed, however this may have changed and since Orbitz and Expedia are giving that cheaper fare, it sounds like it was either a specially negotiated fare or consolidator fare as I pointed out already.

The initial poster is free to book the ticket and report back with us what the fare class is, and if the ticket turns out to be issued by a third party.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6115,4833232

Another article amongst many which says Expedia is a de facto consolidator. Article was written in 2005 by Ed Perkins of Tribune Media services.

All of us must be lying right? We aren't. Sure it is well established the airlines don't like consolidators themselves and want to keep it as hush hush as possible, but this is open forums and the people here already in general sans the initial poster who was new here pretty much know how it all works especially those who travel often.

I can link hundreds of articles with people names who say Expedia has consolidator fares. So why continue to lie. People know how to search and find information already on the internet.

Unlike you, my posts are referenced with well known sources and individuals and I can link many many more sources showing Expedia has consolidator fares.

NWA/Deltaflygirl was exactly right in the post on here. One needs to take caution with these fares.

You seem to be attacking all of us including even others who have writtten extensively on the topic as well. Sorry but you are dead wrong and others here know it too.

"It was not. Expedia does not have consolidator fares. Expedia sells published fares from GDS. Occasionally, there are flights available at a lower rate through either the opaque model (where you don't know flight details at time of booking - a la Priceline) or through packaging (with hotel, etc.) I can show neat examples of packages where hotel + flight costs less than flight alone! Regardless, this is not consolidator activity."

This poster totally disagrees with you. In fact the flight was NOT thru the opaque model because they knew the class and the specific flight and it was NOT thru a hotel package.

All of us who know how it works knew they were consolidator or specially negotiated fares from the beginning, then you come in here and disputed all of us and posted wrong information into the mix.

The poster could NOT get Delta to book the exact flight they knew and saw on Expedia and preferred to book it through Delta directly and was wondering why. And the reason is because it was a Consolidator fare/specially negotiated fare as several of us have pointed out.

This means that the fare code was reserved for usage for specific firms who had purchasing rights to these seats such as Expedia thru either a directly negotiated agreement (specially negotiated fare) or a consolidator fare which they purchased thru a secondary party from another firm.

On international business or first class, it is more often you will see these prices be significantly cheaper and apparently one leg met that criteria.

There is no problem booking these flights as long as the consumer knows the pitfalls. Caution is advised. Issues that come up are change fees, mileage accrual, and so on and so forth as already discussed in this topic.

As far as the DOT 24 hour mandate, this appears to be new and I am unclear if it applies to consolidator fares as well. It very well may be that consolidator fares are exempted due to a loophole. Obviously one needs to wait to see how implementation goes and if there are any issues on this. But even if it all works out fine, it is only 24 hours for tickets bought in advance.

I quote the following "Also beginning this week, passengers will be able to hold a reservation without payment, or cancel a booking without penalty, for 24 hours after the reservation is made, if they make the reservation one week or more prior to a flight’s departure date."

andymo99

I readily admit that I have very little idea of what content Expedia offered 11 years ago. I am quite familiar with 2012 though, and stand by my assertions above on the topic.


100% incontrovertibly false. We assuredly are not a GDS. Believe me, I am very well-versed in our GDS relationships.


[emphasis added]

I won't go on to parse the rest of your missive for all its inaccuracies... I don't have the energy.

OP, feel free to PM me with the details on the date/routing/etc. and I'll see what I can learn. In the meantime, if the fare is still available and you haven't booked it, I wouldn't expect the discrepancy to last long.

Another point: if you see some of the great steals in the MR forum, you'll see how things evolve where they often last longer at some sites vs. other (including supplier direct aka the airline itself).

ecaarch

Wow, what a thread. Since I book almost all of my tix (DL and others) via Expedia, my experiences support virtually everything andymo99 has stated in this thread. There are huge differences between online travel agents (Expedia, Travelocity, Orbitz, etc.), opaque booking services (Hotwire or Priceline bidding), and consolidators. There are different situations where each is the most appropriate, but they are FAR, FAR, FAR from the same thing.

One more reason to book via Expedia - you can link to Expedia via your MyPoints account and accrue MyPoints in addition to your airline FF miles. Since I transfer my MyPoints earnings to my UA account, I was able to quadruple-dip once on a BA ticket. I earned:

UA miles for linking to Expedia via MyPoints
Expedia points for purchasing from Expedia
AA miles for the BA flight
and DL miles by using my SkyMiles AmEx.

18sas

Ah, I forgot about that. I remember hearing about it when the All-In price display rule went in, but I had forgotten.

So, I guess the one week prior to departure rule though would give the edge back to dl.com for flights within that time period.

Crazyhotelguy

Thank you for bringing the truth to this discussion. There is a LOT of misinformation in this thread.

I use Egencia / Expedia weekly. Never had an issue with miles or making changes during IRROPS directly with DL.

Perhaps if DL had a better booking engine, the OP could have booked the same itenerary there.

adamj023

Just because some users didn't get consolidator fares on Expedia, doesn't mean they are not there.

In this case, it clearly was.

I think the reason for the misinformation from others here is because either they are not aware of consolidator/specially negotiated fares on Expedia because in their instances and routes they didn't come across them and also due to the fact that people could have industry connections and don't want people knowing how to correctly book tickets or just people who love to give misinformation.

This one clearly was. I posted references as to links as well saying they have these fares.

I would not be surprised if NWA/Deltaflygirl turned out to be a delta employee.