Yeah, getting booked on another airline is almost always a guaranteed seat in the back.
The nasty thing is I've seen F fares that aren't even true unrestricted F anymore...

I used to regularly buy "A Class" tickets that were always unrestricted about 12 years ago. I could change, get refunds, get vouchers when fares changed all the time. Now as you've said even full F fares have restrictions. I can't believe that airlines are getting away with that. While Etihad's online booking website is pretty disgraceful at least it let's you first book a cabin class then it gives you options to add less restrictions for more money so its really transparent how much more you have to pay for a less restrictive ticket. Even then a fully unrestricted F ticket on Etihad is twice that of a restricted A ticket.


I have to wonder why then Delta charges about twice the amount on JFK-MSP than other airlines like American. American Airlines is upfront about the "instant upgrade" fare, but it was 800 dollars all up compared to Delta's 1400. This is pretty deceiving that Delta is basically selling instant upgrade fares yet marketing them as real first class tickets. Maybe because JFK-MSP is a hub to hub so Delta feels like it can charge more and the American flights are regional flights on American Eagle?

Confusing since many airlines (Eg NWA) had P>F, now it's the other way around.

At least under NW's CoC (and I just read most of DL's CoC, looking for it), award tickets were specifically called out, in regards to class-of-service downgrades, and IDBs. When on awards tickets, at least according to some past CoC's, award ticket really were at a disadvantage. Yet if I were traveling on a confirmed award F, and was downgraded before an "-UP" CoS-paid pax... let the Skymiles flow...

Booked on another airline is almost a guaranteed seat in whatever the COS paid was, not the COS booked, seated, or ticketed.

Glad I'm not the only one who remembers this. Under NW, F used to be the discounted fare, and P the full-fare. I bought an F once, and geez, it was inexpensive.

What a mess. Even in the Contract of Carriage, A is "First Class Restricted".

Both AA and DL were the same $700 for last minute discounted First on my MSP-SFO last week. I opted for AA and an ORD connection since I'm scrambling to re-qualify for EXP. But the big difference between the two is that AA's discounted F (P class) is fully refundable and changeable without penalty at any time, while DL P is non-refundable and subject to change fees after 24 hrs.

on hnl-slc, delta reservations indicates it is operated by a 767-300, BUT when I click on seat map, it shows 6 rows of seats. according to delta's fleet site, 767-300's only have 5 rows of seats. 6 rows, again according to delta fleet site, indicates the original BE seats and seat guru show same thing

mrs. will be less than thrilled if I drag her on 6 hour red-eye with those lousy 763 domestic f seats
delta fleet site:

http://www.delta.com/about_delta/cor...ircraft_fleet/

SLC-HNL is commonly scheduled with a domestic 767-300 (code 763 in the downloadable flight schedule), not the Business elite 767-300ER (code 767). The 763 has five rows of F seating. Perhaps on your date of travel specifically they are substituting in a Business Elite aircraft.

I don't think this is the case. We had a discussion about this a couple of years ago, probably pre-merger, and a DL insider (not sure if it was THE DLinsider) stated just the opposite. I'll try to find the post, but the gist was that a purchased Y ticket upgraded with miles would be downgraded before a full award F ticket.

Is AA's discounted First fare a true First fare, or is it a Y fare with an upgrade like on Delta?

David

Whatever you do, if you purchase an A or P fare ticket, keep a screen shot showing the lowest coach fare that you could have obtained on the date of purchase.

In the event of IROPs, if you end up in coach on your A or P ticket, and if you press for refund of the fare difference that you paid, you may be offered the difference between your A or P fare and the coach fare that is available on the date of travel... which, obviously, could be much higher than the coach fare you passed up to buy the A or P.

No, they don't inform the purchaser well at all! I went back and looked at my tickets, booked at delta.com, and outbound is P, return is A. My booking preference was First ... I got zinged. So basically I'm screwed out of F if ANYTHING out of the ordinary goes wrong b/c I'm treated as Coach? I accept responsibility since no, I didn't read the entire 6 pages of fare basis info to see I actually purchased an "up" fare but if one types in "First" on delta.com, one should not be sold a "Coach" fare. A bit deceptive IMO but I'm stuck with these tickets now. Well, at least I'm going to HNL so it's not all bad.

Does DL even have a restricted F fare that's not an "up" and how does one get that on delta.com? It's not the non-refundable part I care about, it's the fact that I'm actually a coach passenger with an upgrade that bugs me.

Believe the AA P fare is a Y-UP fare as it is described as an "Instant Upgrade" in the fare choice section.