I was pricing some first class red-eye flights from LAX-ATL and noticed the two last flights of the calendar day (10 something and 11 something) have a "(P)" after the word "first" in the reservation process. Both are operated with 763's. Can I assume this means the "old" style business elite seats? i.e. extra recline with a lot of pitch... if not, what does the "(P)" mean? I knew this would be the place for answers and for that, I thank you

Domestically, P on DL generally means a discounted seat in the First Class cabin. They are usually capacity controlled, meaning a limited number of seats are available at the P price. They are often, but not always, non-refundable and have change penalties that non discounted or full First Class fares do not have. They are a great way to get a discounted First Class fare that, on occasion, is cheaper than a non-discounted full Y fare. But the caveat is the non-refundable status on most, but not all P fares. Check your fare rules carefully. As for seating, you may choose any available seat in the First Class cabin. Aircraft type will determine the seating type.

+1. "P" used to mean "premium," but now it's just another discounted F, like A.

Check the seat map and the diagrams: http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...yout/index.jsp.

Good post. I would add emphasis on reading the Ts+Cs carefully. The P fare is actually an "Up" fare which means it is a Y ticket that is instantly upgraded. During IROPS you can be treated as a coach customer and re accommodated in the back. This has happened to me and several other posters here. I do agree it is a great way to get a good seat cheap but make sure you understand the rules.

Hmm is a "D" class domestic ticket considered an "Up" fare as well? I know its a business ticket because Flight 160/161 are actually international flights MXP-MSP with a change of plane at JFK. I'm just taking the JFK-MSP portion though.

If they change a plane I do not want to be treated as a coach customer!@

I just noticed the fare is now 300 dollars cheaper on the same flights and dates. Is there anyway I can get a refund of the difference on a "D" class ticket? I know its non-refundable but I used to have United give me credit when fares lowered before departure in the same booking class.

Thanks! You are all correct-I don�t remember fare class being displayed like that on DL.com
What throws/threw me off was seatguru-- it denotes in sum, that a 763 with 4 rows is standard domestic F; 763's with 5 and 6 rows are "business elite"
both the red-eyes mentioned showed 5 and 6 rows when I clicked "view seats"
If I didn�t know better, I would be under the assumption that I am sleeping/drinking in a Business Elite seat that night

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del...-300_D_New.php

http://www.cwsi.net/delta.htm

Domestic D is also generally a x-UP ticket where it is discounted first class as well, similar to the P fare... but the D is because the flight continues on to intl as you noticed.
You can see your fare basis if you look at your itinerary and go down to the bottom and click on the receipt link, or in the email with your flight confirmation. It will show something like HA00AUPfor example in the fare basis.

The info about possible being stuck in coach if the flight is canceled etc is true, however the agents should try to accommodate you into F on the next flight... however the next flight with first class seats available may be much later. Same is true even if you have a full F fare... if your flight is canceled and there are no seats available later, you have your choice of sitting in coach or waiting for a flight with F open.

Yeah I know about that fare basis chart, but as D class is basically just discounted business class domestically and the P class fares on the same route are the same price that D class would have a similiar restriction.

So if you really want to travel on a discounted domestic ticket, you should look for D fares rather than P if possible so that you aren't downgraded to Y if there is an aircraft change? What if the plane changes and the cabin is now regarded as first class instead of "business elite" will I then be put into economy or placed in the first class section. (We all know its the same cabin, but the seating chart does change when you on a D ticket compared to P)

I called Delta and their Filipino call centre was very unhelpful. The agent was really brisk, unhelpful and unapologetic. They basically stated that they don't offer credit towards other flights if pricing changes (unlike United used to do for me) and that if I wanted a refund I'd have to wait up to 2 months to have it processed. Not impressed with Delta at all.

Updated: YA00UPNQ is the fare basis code so it is indeed a "up" fare.

It doesn't matter if its a P or D or whatever, domestic versions of both are normally an x-UP fare. You have a confirmed first class ticket... if the equipment changes you will be rebooked into first class. Its only business vs first due to the international continuation of the flights.
The only risk is as I mentioned... if the flight gets canceled then you take whats available or wait for a flight with F.

I think its been a while since United offered refund for fare drops also. Its standard practice to charge the $150 change fee and then you'd get a voucher for the remainder if it dropped more.

P is not a confirmed FC ticket, it is a confirmed coach ticket with a confirmed upgrade. If you don't believe me, call the customer service line in Atlanta or call the DM line. In the latter case, you may need a supervisor who really knows the rules.

David

Lets just agree to disagree... I don't think everyone wants to go down the A and P fare argument again of what DL sells on their website when you pick first/biz vs how some agents treat the ticket.

David:

Technically, you are absolutely right, but for practical purposes, it really doesn't matter that much. DL doesn't inform a purchaser that this is really a coach ticket with a confirmed upgrade unless one bothers to read the fine print of the fare basis, which most people never would do. The way they present it on delta.com, a reasonable person would think they are buying a FC ticket. You can't use fine print that most people will never read to counteract a false impression that you have provided in the main presentation.

Therefore, if you are on a P ticket and get downgraded (which can certainly happen if there is an equipment change), you will either get rebooked on an comparable alternative itinerary in First or else get compensation (if they don't offer you compensation, you should write and demand it, as you would legally be entitled to it).

This helps to explain why DL always downgrades FC rewards tickets (purchased FC ones, not upgraded) first, regardless of the status of the passenger. That way, the only compensation they need to give is in Skypesos, which they don't really care about, not in cash.

edit: double post. Sorry.

P and A fares are great when things are running well. When things go bad, a good agent will work around it if you are staying on Delta metal and keep you up front.

If things go bad enough to rebook onto another airline, you are pretty much guaranteed to be riding in coach. In all of the many discussions about IROPS and these fares, I can only recall one FTer speaking up and saying he got rebooked into F on another air carrier. I ended up in coach on AS on a P fare, and avidflyer has similar stories.

Customer service in Atlanta confirmed that I was handled correctly, but bought me off with a voucher.

David