View Poll Results: What Do You Think About the Policy Change for Award Re-Deposits and Re-Issues?
I am in favor of it.
111
13.39%
I am opposed to it and intend to be loyal to a different airline frequent flier loyalty program.
413
49.82%
I am opposed to it but will remain loyal to the Delta SkyMiles frequent flier loyalty program.
198
23.88%
I am not affected by it, am neutral about it, do not know, have no opinion or do not care.
107
12.91%
Voters: 829. You may not vote on this poll
Updated: Award Redeposit and Reissue Rule Change
Aug 14, 2011, 12:16 pm
#1531
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL 3 MM/DM, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec Elite
Posts: 4,004
Please everyone remember that there are 4 reasons, stated specifically at a Delta planning meeting almost 18 months ago by two very senior executives, as to why Delta will not allow one way awards. This should put all 100+ pages of this thread into perspective:
1.) When one way awards are allowed, such as with WN, it simplifies the award booking algorithm to such a degree that "we would then not be able to manipulate the flights offered and the redemption mileage levels required based upon the member's past pattern of desired flight patterns tied to the SM number".
2.) "Our preferred practice of not offering 'low' roundtrip redemption levels would not be possible".
3.) "We lose all of our ability to mislead SM members through sleight of hand".
4.) "Because our mileage redemption requirements have no connection to seat availability or ticket price, doing so would encourage our members to utilize a 'low' mileage redemption combined with a low fare on a given roundtrip, and our desired price supports would be destroyed in the common case where miles could be used for the more expensive segment and cash could be used for the less expensive segment."
1.) When one way awards are allowed, such as with WN, it simplifies the award booking algorithm to such a degree that "we would then not be able to manipulate the flights offered and the redemption mileage levels required based upon the member's past pattern of desired flight patterns tied to the SM number".
2.) "Our preferred practice of not offering 'low' roundtrip redemption levels would not be possible".
3.) "We lose all of our ability to mislead SM members through sleight of hand".
4.) "Because our mileage redemption requirements have no connection to seat availability or ticket price, doing so would encourage our members to utilize a 'low' mileage redemption combined with a low fare on a given roundtrip, and our desired price supports would be destroyed in the common case where miles could be used for the more expensive segment and cash could be used for the less expensive segment."
Aug 14, 2011, 12:22 pm
#1532
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: DL Diamond, HHonors Diamond, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,363
Aug 14, 2011, 12:30 pm
#1533
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Look up - On a ✈ DELTA ✈ jet NOW!
Programs: Blogger & Delta Diamond Medallion Million Miler
Posts: 4,174
Aug 14, 2011, 12:49 pm
#1534
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: DL Diamond, HHonors Diamond, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,363
Aug 14, 2011, 12:58 pm
#1535
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL 3 MM/DM, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec Elite
Posts: 4,004
When someone says "stated specifically" and then proceeds with quotations related to a specific meeting on a specific date, I have a hard time concluding that the post is humor or satire. And all it does, if it is humor, is muddy up the discussions a wee bit, IMO.
Aug 14, 2011, 1:02 pm
#1536
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
+1, Robert Leach, great post, fully agree with all your points. The lack of advance notice, blaming and anti-customer tone in the language, and we don't care it is what it is attitude (lack of willingness to even have an open discussion to find a solution agreeable to both parties) is what makes this issue so core to me.
Aug 14, 2011, 1:06 pm
#1538
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Delta 3MM, DM, AIA IR Shs and MLBabe
Programs: Prefer to stay where the herded cats are staying, IHG , Hyatt gold, bottom fish in other chains
Posts: 2,445
DoT
Don't know if it will do any good but lodge complaint here....I did.
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/aviation0...efeenotice.htm
Stated policy: In no case should more restrictive baggage policies or additional charges be applied retroactively to a consumer who purchased his or her ticket at a time when the charges did not apply, or when a lower charge applied. Whatever the contract of carriage provides regarding free baggage as of the date of each ticket sale is binding on the carrier. The Aviation Enforcement Office considers any carrier practice that violates its contract of carriage provisions to constitute an unfair and deceptive trade practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. § 41712. "
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/aviation0...efeenotice.htm
Stated policy: In no case should more restrictive baggage policies or additional charges be applied retroactively to a consumer who purchased his or her ticket at a time when the charges did not apply, or when a lower charge applied. Whatever the contract of carriage provides regarding free baggage as of the date of each ticket sale is binding on the carrier. The Aviation Enforcement Office considers any carrier practice that violates its contract of carriage provisions to constitute an unfair and deceptive trade practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. § 41712. "
Aug 14, 2011, 1:06 pm
#1539
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: ATL
Programs: DL SkyMiles (Silver), UA Mileage Plus, US Scareways, AA Advantage
Posts: 336
He has none--apparently he gets daily updates from a slew of "insiders" who tell him everything that's going on at the company, which one would assume violates several NDAs. Many of his previous points have been disproved by our own unofficial DL insiders here on FT.
^. Some people just like to stir the pot with false information.
Look at his posting history--apparently it's "all facts" 
.
^. Some people just like to stir the pot with false information.
.
Aug 14, 2011, 1:07 pm
#1540
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Switzerland
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 46
I like flying Delta. Living in Minneapolis, Delta could be seen as a necessary evil. However, after completing my challenge to UA earlier this summer, I have to say that I missed flying Delta. The product is great.
That said, the manner in which they are going after their most loyal customers is alarming. Why should we be loyal to Delta when they are so obviously not loyal to us? The lack of international award availability was why I switched to *A. This change to the terms of the loyalty program is a validation that I made the right decision.
That said, the manner in which they are going after their most loyal customers is alarming. Why should we be loyal to Delta when they are so obviously not loyal to us? The lack of international award availability was why I switched to *A. This change to the terms of the loyalty program is a validation that I made the right decision.
Last edited by A2010; Aug 14, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Aug 14, 2011, 1:15 pm
#1541
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kea'au, Hawaii
Programs: Recovering Delta SkyMiles Addict--Now Gold with AAdvantage
Posts: 586
Because they are DL, and honest, timely, and straightforward communication with their customers, especially regarding potentially unpopular changes, has not been a major concern to them for about 10 years now.
Aug 14, 2011, 1:54 pm
#1542
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,574
Booked, PAID FOR and ticketed, perhaps.
But, booked, ISSUED FOR FREE WITH GREEN STAMPS under the explicit contractual terms of the SM program which agreed to and signed up to when you signed up for it, and ticketed, er, no.
Sorry, Delta can change your tickets, cancel your tickets, cancel your account, change the program, terminate the program, whatever they want, whenever they want. The miles don't even belong to you but are there for you to play with, under whatever new rules Delta dreams up from day to day, take it or leave it, like it or lump it, their way or the highway...
But, booked, ISSUED FOR FREE WITH GREEN STAMPS under the explicit contractual terms of the SM program which agreed to and signed up to when you signed up for it, and ticketed, er, no.
Sorry, Delta can change your tickets, cancel your tickets, cancel your account, change the program, terminate the program, whatever they want, whenever they want. The miles don't even belong to you but are there for you to play with, under whatever new rules Delta dreams up from day to day, take it or leave it, like it or lump it, their way or the highway...
If you think that because miles where used for a ticket, that suddenly the conditions and contract of carriage just fly out the window, I'd respectfully question that statement based on the following:
I have not checked Domestic Rule tarrifs yet, but the International Contract of Carriage (and as filed with the Canadian Transportation Agency) states this in regard to Delta SkyMiles Award Travel:
Rule 730 - Delta Skymiles Program
Delta will provide free and reduced rate transportation to members in good standing of the Delta Skymiles program who have complied with the procedures for accumulations of such benefits pursuant to program rules. All award travel is subject to the terms and conditions of the contract of carriage of the operating carrier.
The above referenced contract of carriage state:
Changes to Contract Terms
Delta reserves the right to amend its Contract of Carriage at any time. Your travel will be governed by the rules that were in effect on the date you purchased your ticket, although Delta reserves the right to apply rules currently in effect on the date of your travel where reasonably necessary for operational reasons and where the change in rule does not have a material negative impact upon you. Delta ticket agents and employees cannot modify the terms of the contract without authority from a corporate officer.
I'd say that any attempt to retroactively apply a change in rules that forfeits a ticket would be "a material negative impact"... @:-)
Aug 14, 2011, 2:03 pm
#1543
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: 2 many 4 2 long.
Posts: 324
It isn't. All 4 points are facts that the DL employees posting here are not ethical enough to acknowledge. My sources in Delta total 5 people. But frankly, 3 are former DL IT people who left for UA/CO, one of whom is now no longer with UA/CO. The other 2 are still employed (not necessarily in IT) at senior levels by Delta. I am told that it is a very small cadre of unskilled executives who seem to be focused on driving the Delta enterprise into a mountain and that they are purposefully surrounded by unskilled yes-people like those who post here in defense of them.
And the Delta employees posting here will admit...at least to themselves...that NDA's generally do not exist at DL until a senior executive leaves with a severance package.
None of what I post is included within any NDA, and none of it is "inside information" under law. If I posted what I know of that stuff I can assure you that the Delta mindtrust would invert. But, that is begiing to occur with no help from any of us, and you will be hearing more about that very soon.
The people not capable enough to either see or admit all 4 of my earlier points within the actual current patterns and practices of Delta are not surprisingly the ones contributing nothing to the subject of this thread.
And the Delta employees posting here will admit...at least to themselves...that NDA's generally do not exist at DL until a senior executive leaves with a severance package.
None of what I post is included within any NDA, and none of it is "inside information" under law. If I posted what I know of that stuff I can assure you that the Delta mindtrust would invert. But, that is begiing to occur with no help from any of us, and you will be hearing more about that very soon.
The people not capable enough to either see or admit all 4 of my earlier points within the actual current patterns and practices of Delta are not surprisingly the ones contributing nothing to the subject of this thread.
Aug 14, 2011, 2:14 pm
#1544
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
...
[I]Delta reserves the right to amend its Contract of Carriage at any time. Your travel will be governed by the rules that were in effect on the date you purchased your ticket, although Delta reserves the right to apply rules currently in effect on the date of your travel where reasonably necessary for operational reasons and where the change in rule does not have a material negative impact upon you...
[I]Delta reserves the right to amend its Contract of Carriage at any time. Your travel will be governed by the rules that were in effect on the date you purchased your ticket, although Delta reserves the right to apply rules currently in effect on the date of your travel where reasonably necessary for operational reasons and where the change in rule does not have a material negative impact upon you...
I'm sure some spinmeister at Virginia Ave has already previewed this with DL's crackerjack legal team.
Aug 14, 2011, 2:16 pm
#1545
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New Orleans, AA EXP, DL PM, SPG PLT, HH Diamond
Posts: 3,750
I don't think DL has its act together enough to preview anything with anybody...