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-   -   First Class Monetization, or FCM: The Definitive Thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1230437-first-class-monetization-fcm-definitive-thread.html)

StuckOnSegments Mar 21, 2013 9:34 pm


Originally Posted by SFO777 (Post 20461425)
How do you know what fare they paid?

Did you read my post? I'm assuming, especially since there were a lot more seats open in first before the A fare showed up on Delta.com. I have no way of knowing, but i'm pretty confident.

SFO777 Mar 21, 2013 9:41 pm


Originally Posted by StuckOnSegments (Post 20461482)
Did you read my post? I'm assuming, especially since there were a lot more seats open in first before the A fare showed up on Delta.com. I have no way of knowing, but i'm pretty confident.

I know you've heard this before but the bottom line is they bought F tickets and you didn't.
Some routes are more difficult than others for upgrades. I haven't experienced any problems yet... was upgraded at booking (5 days ago) on both of my flights today and my coach fare was 1/2 of the First fare. Then again, I don't generally fly hub-to-hub routes.

StuckOnSegments Mar 21, 2013 9:47 pm


Originally Posted by SFO777 (Post 20461518)
I know you've heard this before but the bottom line is they bought F tickets and you didn't.
Some routes are more difficult than others for upgrades. I haven't experienced any problems yet... was upgraded at booking (5 days ago) on both of my flights today and my coach fare was 1/2 of the First fare. Then again, I don't generally fly hub-to-hub routes.

I did buy an F ticket, which is how i know there were kids and it was a family. I was originally on an coach ticket, and i didn't get an upgrade at the window, which is why i changed my ticket. Again, this wasn't a hub to hub flight. Clearly inventory management didn't want to upgrade anyone at the window, as they were going to sell those tix for cheap.

dundalk Mar 22, 2013 9:27 am


Originally Posted by StuckOnSegments (Post 20461482)
Did you read my post? I'm assuming, especially since there were a lot more seats open in first before the A fare showed up on Delta.com. I have no way of knowing, but i'm pretty confident.

I think you are probably wrong. At this time of year, flights from DEN and SLC often have kids up front. It is because of ski season - wealthy families on winter vacations. Isn't it far more likely that this family paid for those tickets far in advance of the A fares becoming available?

timmy83 Mar 22, 2013 9:33 am


Originally Posted by StuckOnSegments (Post 20461545)
I did buy an F ticket, which is how i know there were kids and it was a family. I was originally on an coach ticket, and i didn't get an upgrade at the window, which is why i changed my ticket. Again, this wasn't a hub to hub flight. Clearly inventory management didn't want to upgrade anyone at the window, as they were going to sell those tix for cheap.

Perhaps my logic isn't right, but I find it unlikely that a whole family would be buying last-minute fares. It's certainly possible that these were A fares, but could have been purchased early, when it was incrementally more expensive than the average coach fare.

timmy83 Mar 22, 2013 9:35 am


Originally Posted by reef58 (Post 20452432)
That is all fine and dandy I guess, but I rarely am able to purchase a 4 segment 2000 MQM fare for less than $1000. If they want to upgrade a passenger paying $300 over me that is fine, but it doesn't earn my loyalty.

If you think seeing upgrades to non frequent flyers is good for their bottom line I disagree. I have already split my business this year with US Air.

If I were a higher medallion, I would likely respond as you have. I'm not trying to deny the fact that these strategies may be somewhat short-sited, but may be beneficial to the airline now. If there is an overall loss of frequent travelers, it may be reassessed - but I think this is unlikely as the other main players have begun swinging low F fares just the same.

TheMoose Mar 22, 2013 9:47 am

Infuriating? Really?

Calm down, buy the cheaper FC fare, and be done with it.

If your corporate travel policy is arcane, antiquated, or inflexible enough that they won't let you buy a "higher" fare class, even though it is cheaper for them, then much of the blame lies with your company, as well.

mridley2 Mar 22, 2013 12:12 pm


Originally Posted by timmy83 (Post 20463777)
Perhaps my logic isn't right, but I find it unlikely that a whole family would be buying last-minute fares. It's certainly possible that these were A fares, but could have been purchased early, when it was incrementally more expensive than the average coach fare.


you've never heard of a last minute weekend getaway? It's something wealthy families are wont to do! I do them about once a month and i'm not wealthy.

I think what SoS was explaining was that after he wasn't UG'd at the window although F cabin was empty, he checked the inventory for sale on DL.dumb and saw that DL was selling cheapo A fares which filled the cabin to 1 seat available at BFUG time. And a family with kids was sitting in F and likely had bought those A fare seats. Seems perfectly reasonable to me..

amolkold Mar 22, 2013 1:50 pm

Why does it matter how other people paid for their seats? Just worry about yourself. Maybe they redeemed Skypesos all at the high level.

vxmike Mar 22, 2013 3:53 pm


Originally Posted by mridley2 (Post 20464698)
you've never heard of a last minute weekend getaway? It's something wealthy families are wont to do! I do them about once a month and i'm not wealthy.

I think what SoS was explaining was that after he wasn't UG'd at the window although F cabin was empty, he checked the inventory for sale on DL.dumb and saw that DL was selling cheapo A fares which filled the cabin to 1 seat available at BFUG time. And a family with kids was sitting in F and likely had bought those A fare seats. Seems perfectly reasonable to me..

There are over 5 million households in the USA with a net worth of at least one million dollars. I'm pretty sure this group is loving cheaper A fares. There are tons of people out there with the available funds to take advantage of FCM who aren't high elites and otherwise wouldn't expect upgrades.

Sabai Mar 23, 2013 6:08 am


Originally Posted by amolkold (Post 20465268)
Why does it matter how other people paid for their seats? Just worry about yourself. Maybe they redeemed Skypesos all at the high level.

+100

If if get upgraded, sweet. If not, I'm getting what I paid for, and what reasonable person can complain about that?

Travel is aggravating enough, why stress out about who "should" or "shouldn't" be in what seat?

bcj1949 Mar 23, 2013 8:47 am


Originally Posted by BusTrav8yrs (Post 20451860)
Of course you think it is a benefit as an FO. It is the DM who has to walk to the back because the front is full of kettles and FO that are willing to pass on the extra 150 to their clients with no remorse that get frustrated.

Fact is complimentary UG are the primary benefit DL has and it has been severely diluted by FCM. Can't blame it on economic environment and capacity. Even when times were very good for the airlines in the past as a top tier I never had to BF or miss as many UG's as the last 2 yrs.

Times have changes. Loyalty is secondary to profit. I've adjusted. I look now at all three legacies for routes/fares, check EF for UG availability etc and then decide buy economy or A fare. I look at this approach as flexibility realizing that to grab a free UG takes real study these days. Again the times have changed and I'll change with them. I also don't sweat who are others sitting in F. They are there and good for them.

ElmhurstNick Mar 23, 2013 2:51 pm

I "grew up" on the sticker method of upgrading on UA and then AA. While my employer won't reimburse for A, if I get the proper screen shots they'll reimburse the cheapest available coach fare on DL that day.

The stickers used to cost me $30 per 500 miles when I stopped flying UA in 2009. So when I see an A fare from LAX-MCI or BOS-DTW/LGA-ORD that's only about $110-$130 higher one-way than the U fare, and comes with 150% MQM, it's not rocket science to deduce that as an FO I'm going to buy it. Sometimes I get 'burned' and it turns out I would have cleared anyway. Most times, I wouldn't have cleared as an FO so I'm happy.

If DL is competing on a route against AA, UA, US, or even WN and we're up to H/M fares... yes, the carrier which offers me the best seating (both plane type and seat type) is going to get the sale.

SOBE ER DOC Mar 23, 2013 3:50 pm

I got news for folks who are screaming bloody murder over this: the exact same thing is happening over at AA and UA. I am seeing fare differences between Y and F at AA that are often less than $100 if I am booking close in.

Believe me, I am the first to shriek in horror when I do not clear an UG and have almost inconsolable sadness as I make make my way to the back but the reality is, no matter how loyal I am, I am not ENTITLED to the UG.

I have found myself making the educated guess about whether or not I will clear an UG and, if I don't think I will, I buy the ticket in F if the fare difference is justifiable IMO. I find myself doing this a lot of ATL-FL routes, particularly on Thursday evenings. Yes, it's only an hour and 15 minute flights but I'd rather ay the extra $100 that be crammed into the back with a bunch of kettles...PARTICULARLY during spring break season.

This whole thing sucks, but it is what is it is and DL is not the only one out there doing it. And, if it didn't work for them they wouldn't do it.

mridley2 Mar 23, 2013 5:14 pm


Originally Posted by vxmike (Post 20465931)
There are over 5 million households in the USA with a net worth of at least one million dollars. I'm pretty sure this group is loving cheaper A fares. There are tons of people out there with the available funds to take advantage of FCM who aren't high elites and otherwise wouldn't expect upgrades.

Absolutely! And if I was allowed to purchase flights at the last minute I'd love A fares too sadly corporate accounting has tightened the screws! Wagonlit requires T-21 day purchase unless you have executive committee approval. And believe me I had to fly to Hong Kong last fall with 4 days notice. That was a $12k ticket in J. Would have been easier to pass a reasonable gun control bill through congress I kid you not!!


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