First Class Monetization, or FCM: The Definitive Thread
Jul 5, 2015, 12:24 pm
#2506
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,611
In rare instances LAX/SFO to JFK, a plane configured with a regular old domestic first-class will be substituted for promised full flat's. Delta will not automatically refund or give compensation. Contact Delta to complain, and at a minimum, you will get some miles as compensation (assuming it wasn't a complimentary medallion upgrade).
Last edited by Bowgie; Jul 5, 2015 at 12:35 pm
Jul 5, 2015, 12:34 pm
#2507
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,611
I'm betting it won't be better. Delta is notorious for not releasing seats in advance for upgrades on its JFK routes. Frankly, I never understood the desire for window upgrades when there's going to be a bunch of empty first-class seats at the gate anyway. It's still an upgrade; and Delta is less aggressive than United about selling upgrade out from under elites.
Jul 5, 2015, 1:42 pm
#2508
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CT
Programs: DL DM 2MM, MR LTT, Hilton D, Hertz PC. National Emerald Exec, UA Silver(thanks to Marriott)
Posts: 2,026
I'm betting it won't be better. Delta is notorious for not releasing seats in advance for upgrades on its JFK routes. Frankly, I never understood the desire for window upgrades when there's going to be a bunch of empty first-class seats at the gate anyway. It's still an upgrade; and Delta is less aggressive than United about selling upgrade out from under elites.
2. Knowing GA isn't letting their NSRA pal have your seat.
3. Knowing someone who bought a cheap G fare on the 6am flight with no intention of taking it didn't SDC and take away your UG.
4. Knowing some kettle on a T fare didn't pay $80 at check-in to take the seat while you are on a Q fare.
Jul 5, 2015, 2:25 pm
#2509
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP,2MM, DL Gold,Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,876
I ended up in FC in the end...not sure quite when because I don't get an e-mail for an upgrade, but some time after the check-in window and after a number of FC seats disappeared. But I nabbed the last non-bulkhead FC seat and so it all ended well.
Next flight after this is UA and I've got a regional upgrade on one of those as well...I'll be curious to see if they do better.
FTF
Next flight after this is UA and I've got a regional upgrade on one of those as well...I'll be curious to see if they do better.
FTF
Jul 5, 2015, 3:40 pm
#2510
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MCO
Programs: DL exDM MM
Posts: 762
Or a new low for me anyway.
Less than 3 hours until checkin. I'm a Plat with a regional upgrade coupon on my reservation (added maybe 10 days ago) for a redeye flight to JFK tomorrow night. There are EIGHT, count'em EIGHT empty FC seats for the flight; 50% of the cabin. (Yes, I checked and that many FC are for sale, not just shown empty.) It's a holiday but before most people are leaving and there's about 10 empty coach seats.
So a few hours before checkin, 50% empty first class seats and they won't release one to a plat with a regional upgrade because they're desperately hoping they can sell that last one for an extra $25 (heck, they've got 8 in inventory) to someone who isn't even sure what airline they are getting on.
Yeah, I'll probably get upgraded in the end, or at least I hope so. It'll be the last one, and I'll get the window bulkhead with no place to put my legs (ie, under a seat) and sleep.
And for any apologist who says I've got no right to even thing negative thoughts about an upgrade - this isn't even free, it's paid with a coupon that took a heck of a lot of paid travel to earn.
MF, I should just go back to United, where at least I don't have to work to keep Plat status since I've got lifetime. FU DL.
Disgustedly,
FTF
Less than 3 hours until checkin. I'm a Plat with a regional upgrade coupon on my reservation (added maybe 10 days ago) for a redeye flight to JFK tomorrow night. There are EIGHT, count'em EIGHT empty FC seats for the flight; 50% of the cabin. (Yes, I checked and that many FC are for sale, not just shown empty.) It's a holiday but before most people are leaving and there's about 10 empty coach seats.
So a few hours before checkin, 50% empty first class seats and they won't release one to a plat with a regional upgrade because they're desperately hoping they can sell that last one for an extra $25 (heck, they've got 8 in inventory) to someone who isn't even sure what airline they are getting on.
Yeah, I'll probably get upgraded in the end, or at least I hope so. It'll be the last one, and I'll get the window bulkhead with no place to put my legs (ie, under a seat) and sleep.
And for any apologist who says I've got no right to even thing negative thoughts about an upgrade - this isn't even free, it's paid with a coupon that took a heck of a lot of paid travel to earn.
MF, I should just go back to United, where at least I don't have to work to keep Plat status since I've got lifetime. FU DL.
Disgustedly,
FTF
Jul 5, 2015, 4:03 pm
#2511
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HKY
Programs: DL-DM MM & RW, UAL- PS, Marriott Lifetime PLT, SPG-PLT, Hilton-Gold
Posts: 4,468
You paid zero for the RUC. DL gave you choice of benefits for flying every once in a while. You paid for seat to fly for a seat from point to point, and nothing more.
If you feel you are owed more, either read the T&C of the program or adjust your sense of entitlement
Jul 5, 2015, 4:58 pm
#2512
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CT
Programs: DL DM 2MM, MR LTT, Hilton D, Hertz PC. National Emerald Exec, UA Silver(thanks to Marriott)
Posts: 2,026
Feel entitled much?
You paid zero for the RUC. DL gave you choice of benefits for flying every once in a while. You paid for seat to fly for a seat from point to point, and nothing more.
If you feel you are owed more, either read the T&C of the program or adjust your sense of entitlement
You paid zero for the RUC. DL gave you choice of benefits for flying every once in a while. You paid for seat to fly for a seat from point to point, and nothing more.
If you feel you are owed more, either read the T&C of the program or adjust your sense of entitlement
Jul 5, 2015, 5:15 pm
#2513
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HKY
Programs: DL-DM MM & RW, UAL- PS, Marriott Lifetime PLT, SPG-PLT, Hilton-Gold
Posts: 4,468
en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"his pompous, entitled attitude"
Try reading all of the post quoted. I stand behind my comments.
Last edited by longing4piedmont; Jul 5, 2015 at 5:23 pm
Jul 5, 2015, 5:30 pm
#2514
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Maybe just better reading comprehension skills than some here. Or perhaps you missed the FU comment?
en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"his pompous, entitled attitude"
Try reading all of the post quoted. I stand behind my comments.
en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"his pompous, entitled attitude"
Try reading all of the post quoted. I stand behind my comments.
Jul 5, 2015, 5:49 pm
#2515
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CT
Programs: DL DM 2MM, MR LTT, Hilton D, Hertz PC. National Emerald Exec, UA Silver(thanks to Marriott)
Posts: 2,026
Maybe just better reading comprehension skills than some here. Or perhaps you missed the FU comment?
en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"his pompous, entitled attitude"
Try reading all of the post quoted. I stand behind my comments.
en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"his pompous, entitled attitude"
Try reading all of the post quoted. I stand behind my comments.
Doesn't surprise me bubba likes the same road.
Jul 5, 2015, 5:54 pm
#2516
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: OMA / MUC
Programs: Former NW PE, now DL DM
Posts: 1,006
Wow! This thread has now surpassed 2,500 posts, which was certainly to be expected, given the passions of the crowd who hang out here.
When this whole issue of FCM was coming to the forefront, I remember a quote from Richard a year or two ago: "We want our BEST customers in our BEST seats." My response then is the same as it is now, Richard: "Who are REALLY your best customers?"
Are they the people who rack up far more than 125,000 miles each year sitting on your airplanes? (Perhaps that is actually more miles than you travel on Delta every year, Richard?) Or are they the one-timers who wave $79 at you for an upgrade, and won't fly your airline again for another 12-18 months, if that? How greedy are you, Richard????
I liken the First Class Cabin to a Country Club. I like to think it is, as advertised, for those who have paid their dues. Some of us have done that year after year, with a long history of DM status. When I go to the Country Club, I don't expect to be told that I can't have a tee time or a restaurant reservation because a "visitor or two" have purchased a one-day pass and now there is no more room for me!
If there is some notion of "entitlement" in all of this, it is only because I've been trained by first NW and later by DL to think that way for the past 25+ years as a top tier Elite.
PS: My domestic upgrade rate is still around 75%, but that is with careful planning of flight dates and times. Just 2 years ago, it was well over 95% And my international upgrade rate is pretty decent also, between SWU's and OP-UP's on overbooked flights. But if I can't foresee an international upgrade, I have been been know to pay for D1 as long as the price is "reasonable". And I don't consider $7,000 RT reasonable!!!
When this whole issue of FCM was coming to the forefront, I remember a quote from Richard a year or two ago: "We want our BEST customers in our BEST seats." My response then is the same as it is now, Richard: "Who are REALLY your best customers?"
Are they the people who rack up far more than 125,000 miles each year sitting on your airplanes? (Perhaps that is actually more miles than you travel on Delta every year, Richard?) Or are they the one-timers who wave $79 at you for an upgrade, and won't fly your airline again for another 12-18 months, if that? How greedy are you, Richard????
I liken the First Class Cabin to a Country Club. I like to think it is, as advertised, for those who have paid their dues. Some of us have done that year after year, with a long history of DM status. When I go to the Country Club, I don't expect to be told that I can't have a tee time or a restaurant reservation because a "visitor or two" have purchased a one-day pass and now there is no more room for me!
If there is some notion of "entitlement" in all of this, it is only because I've been trained by first NW and later by DL to think that way for the past 25+ years as a top tier Elite.
PS: My domestic upgrade rate is still around 75%, but that is with careful planning of flight dates and times. Just 2 years ago, it was well over 95% And my international upgrade rate is pretty decent also, between SWU's and OP-UP's on overbooked flights. But if I can't foresee an international upgrade, I have been been know to pay for D1 as long as the price is "reasonable". And I don't consider $7,000 RT reasonable!!!
Jul 5, 2015, 5:55 pm
#2517
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
It's not the low road. It is a practical interpretation of the words posted. The delusion on this board of services desired for which most are unwilling to pay is frightening (considering many on here are "business" travelers.) Poster got the upgrade, just not on their schedule, so they are leaving for UA? That is entitlement pure and simple. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck......
If an upgrade were THAT important, poster should have simply paid for the cabin that was so desired.
If an upgrade were THAT important, poster should have simply paid for the cabin that was so desired.
Last edited by bubbashow; Jul 5, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Jul 5, 2015, 5:56 pm
#2518
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
The entire landscape has changed in the last 2 years. Get used to it. It is the new reality. if you can't comprehend that, I would not participate in the private sector in any way whatsoever if I were you.
Jul 5, 2015, 6:18 pm
#2519
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,349
It's not the low road. It is a practical interpretation of the words posted. The delusion on this board of services desired for which most are unwilling to pay is frightening (considering many on here are "business" travelers.) Poster got the upgrade, just not on their schedule, so they are leaving for UA? That is entitlement pure and simple. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck......
If an upgrade were THAT important, poster should have simply paid for the cabin that was so desired.
If an upgrade were THAT important, poster should have simply paid for the cabin that was so desired.
I'm new to posting here but have been reading the forum for some time before joining and it's simply amazing how so many "business" travelers want DL to return to a type of program they were running at a time when they were losing millions of dollars a year and steer away from the type of program they're running while making millions in profit.
Jul 5, 2015, 6:31 pm
#2520
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: OMA / MUC
Programs: Former NW PE, now DL DM
Posts: 1,006
Yes, the landscape has changed and I AM getting used to it, but that doesn't mean that I or anyone else has to LIKE it. The real question is whether the DOJ was sold a Bill of Goods that less competition would truly be a good thing for the airline industry. Maybe it is, but not a good thing for me or you or any other truly FREQUENT flyer! Realities may change, but ingrained expectations don't change that quickly or easily. Your comments on these issues?