Exactly. So why is DL removing benefits from its FFP?

But a guy with an MBA told us it would!!!!!

Which really would suit DL just fine unless they can find more ways of extracting revenue from loyal/captive flyers. The AmEx cards & benefits thereof (and the devaluation of FO) proves that they're trying to further monetize SkyMiles (which is the only reason to keep SM).

Not that they haven't tried in the past - witness the exorbitant fares that they got in CVG after they drove competitors out... a recent survey showed CVG and MEM STILL being the highest average fares in the US.

And that is completely opposite to the argument made by the Virginia DOT and the private contractor in Virgina that is adding toll lanes to the DC Beltway. They argue that they don't expect the "frequent traveler"' to pay for using the toll lanes - they expect regular commuters to pay only in "rare" circumstances (which would undermine the premise for building the lanes in the first place, but I digress). And those statements are made even as the contractor reconfigures the remaining "free" lanes in a manner that raises more impediments to traffic flow.

The equation for toll lanes that parallel free lanes is almost the same as monetized upgrades. The occasional traveler that doesn't want to deal with the traffic (or hadn't planned on it) will pay up for a "nicer" ride. Under that premise, either DL has a flawed analysis (or is snookering the public), or the toll contractor is using a flawed analysis (or is snookering the public). I'd put my money on something in the middle.

Nobody said DL CAN'T do FCM and we SHOULD get F for free. All we are saying is that we are disappointed by this. Are we allowed to be disappointed? Please, 3Cforme, allow us to express our disappointment, thank you very much.

Which is clearly addressed in another thread about the SCs. DL freely admits that you can't increase benefits on the plane so you have to compete with better benefits on the ground, which they claim that the SC is.

but DL's reality isn't necessarily the reality to the rest of the world. Plus, most of those upsells to F from P fares are, most likely, business travellers (read as medallion). The average Joe Traveller out there isn't buying a P fare, they're buying LUT fares and, I think, would be more likely to shell out the $75 for an UG at the gate when DL hangs a pretty wall banner there advertising that they too can enjoy the perks of sitting in F.

Yep the future
 

Fully agree and just posted a similar post on another thread. This is true on all legacies. Fewer UG"s unless you are top tier. Fewer seats and more buy-ups. My new thinking is first check F fares to where I want to go with UA, AA and DL. See if something looks good/reasonable. Then check DL my currently used most used airline. I'm PM and am at 50% UG this year. I expect to be about the same next year. I've used UA more as some fares in F out of MSP have beat DL coach! For me that may be the future! Everyone has their own priorities etc but for me this is the direction I probably will take next year. By the way....SWU's etc worthless or near worthless.

Sorry, I read your statement "solely on price" to mean "solely on price." Silly me :D

Eh, I factor the "total cost of travel" into the "price" of the ticket.

Wake up people
 

My turn to rant.

Here's the problem with your post. If you read other posts, particularly those dealing with DL's new website in 2012, it should be pretty clear that there aren't going to be any $75 "at the gate" upgrades; they'll all be sold online before the day of sale.

A LOT of us buy tickets 7-10 days out. We're already paying M class fares, and for me, the price of a P fare has ranged from $0 more to $150 more. Given that all of my flights are 2-legged, and one is usually more than 4 hrs, it's worth it. And I've bought a lot of them. Even since becoming a DM.

Let that sink in. I am a DM on a M class fare, and I am still paying for the guaranteed F seat.

Why? Because it's worth it to me.

Now, for those of you working for companies with inflexible travel policies who are all claiming "I'll just move to XYZ airline" you are forgetting something. If you all do that, XYZ airline will run out of space, and ... raise their prices.

With all these threads I come to the same three conclusions:

1. Too much "entitlement" mentality around here. Just cuz you are a DM, doesn't mean you get an upgrade. Deal with it.

2. Some of you think you're worth more to DL than you really are. FTers are fun, and there's a lot of knowledge here, and for some unknown reason, some really HVCs actually spend time here. (Thank you!) But there's a lot more non-FTers out there. I have yet to meet anyone on any flight when I am sat up front that has even heard of FT, let alone is a regular poster!

3. Some of you fail basic marketing. To claim Joe Schmoe's are more likely to pay for upgrades when DLs own data clearly shows otherwise, just because you think it's more likely, is, well, pretty arrogant. DL is a multi-billion dollar company with data mining systems that provide them with REAL DATA, not just supposition. If DL does something that the data indicates will be a good thing, you can bet your salary that it will be beneficial for DL even if you think it will cause you to jump ship. (Do you REALLY think other airlines aren't doing just the same thing???)

Look, I don't necessarily agree with everything DL does. But I am a capitalist. And I want them to be successful and deliver a good product. Almost all of the time, that's what I get. (I rarely fly J so don't go there.) I am happy to pay more for my flight to get the service I expect. And if that means a few extra $$ for my flight, I'm happy to pay it.

Oh, and I pay for my own flights, unlike many of you on here...

End rant.

If they are able to get an extra $250 from someone for the F seat, there's a profit increase.

Myself included. The couple sitting behind me in F today said "it was only $150 each way extra to sit in First so we did it.

As a DM I'm seeing significant tightening of upgrade space. Where before I'd clear my typical routes at the window I'm clearing at the gate.

The problem is they've ....ed the equation up and, typically, in your example they'll be selling the P fare for cheaper than that M fare close in. That's where you're seeing the seat creep. Instead of pricing last minute F fares above the last minute coach fares P is becoming the cheaper last-minute purchase.

Actually, over the past couple of weeks I've noticed that's no longer the case. P is now increasing with M. Gone are the days of the $0 and $4 P upgrade it seems. (Of course, it could be just because of the time of year...)

Could be time of year or they got smarter... Doubt both though ;)

The goal is to sell X% of the F seats so... they will... no matter the way. My thought is that P should expire at X days (4 or 5) and have only high fares for last minute... like the competitors.

My old FFP used to give me 1K miles if I didn't get an UG, now as DM I'm going to see my UG % go down further because of FCM? My how times have changed...

The difference is Delta is targeting the last minute H/M/B/Y fare coach buying business travelers for the incremental upsell.

An vacation traveler who booked their sLUT ticket for $300 an month ahead of time is not likely to pay $300-400 more for a Y-up/P while an SM/GM/PM or even DM business traveler needing to be productive on a 3-5 hour flight who is already paying $700-900 for their ticket could be induced pay $40-70 more to get that assured F seat.

That wouldn't work. I know some folks are upping to a P fare a couple of days out if they didn't clear their UG window. Basically, they're refusing to pay the gate lottery. If DL's data shows this pattern it means several of the passengers are probably those that would have gotten the UG anyway. (I'm guilty of doing this once; it was a long week, I knew how tired I'd be by Friday pm...)

If you limit to F only 4-5 days out, these pax wont buy it and DL loses $$$.