stencil

No, we've all learned great ways to get ug's on domestic segments - as have I. I've also learned - here - time and again that delta does relatively well selling intl BE. I've also learned about I fares. I've also learned about SWUs and M fares. I've also learned about flying BE out of less expensive markets to save some money.

What I have never learned is how to get something valuable for free.

vasantn

Fair enough, but what you consider free is not really free. It is paid for with loyalty, which translates into dollars.

I fly AA almost exclusively, even if it means paying more to get from LGA to CHS via DFW. Why? Because that loyalty is generously rewarded in the form of international upgrades, which to me are the most important benefit. That probably makes me a more valuable customer than someone who purchases a premium full fare ticket once a year. At least, AA seems to think so since they very often upgrade me (internationally) into seats that could quite likely be sold for cash revenue. Win-win. I see no need to feel inferior to the full-fare pax.

Case in point: My partner and I both got upgraded ORD-PVG (both ways) on a cheapo fare. The outbound is 3 weeks out, and there were only 6 revenue seats remaining in J (now there are 4). Do you really believe that we got upgraded because AA believes us to be freeloading, bloodsucking leeches, or is it because AA sees value in keeping us happy so that we continue to concentrate our flying on AA?

I fully accept that DL's business model is different, which is why I don't fly DL any longer. But to suggest that upgraded pax are somehow inferior to full-fare pax and not entitled to breathe the same air is, frankly, ludicrous and elitist.

rncolon_2010

I understand there will be and are different opinions on this, but THIS IS my POINT. Allow one the opportunity to upgrade via miles/cash at the gate. I did not mention SWU as my upgrade path.

To those that do not want a whiny PM/DM next to them 1) reserve that seat next to you as an overweight person might. 2) how would you know the difference. Do they have a tag that says I was upgraded for "insert method". 3) Buy you're own jet.

That stance is as unmindful as the other where folks feel DM status attained via AMEX or other MQM promo's are not worthy. The system allows for it, kudos to them for making use of it. I for one travelled my end to DM status, but will never belittle others that have done so otherwise good for them, just like good for you if you can pay for y-b-m or full be/1st class fare! I can not and sometimes would LOVE to enjoy the extra bene of seat with more space for whatever reason, mainly sleep in my case.

When the BACK is full DL will gladly move me up or offer me $300+ pesos to wait plus the hotel room, food, taxi/shuttle, otherwise no. Although I am willing to give up miles and cash? Does that soudn logical?

yvandoorn

I agree but with the added benefit that a DM/PM who has chosen this benefit and paid for a M fare ticket and is using a SWU gets upgraded to J when there is a seat open, not simply only "Z fare" availability. On many flights I look at for my job the U bucket is set to 0 but there are often 10+ J seats available, that is frankly annoying for a DM/PM that has chosen his/her benefit to be 4 or 6 SWUs and wants to use his/her choice.

DLPhoenix

Delta apparently believes that you represent the majority of its customers. It doesn't work for me. I work for a company with a "lowest available fare" policy. SWUs that require me to pay $2,000 to be eligible for an upgrade are worthless to me.
As for the integrity of the product - my daughter flew PHX->TLV->PHX in J a couple of miles ago (I have to burn my miles). There were empty seats in J both ATL->TLV and TLV->JFK.

Happy Travles
And Mucho Upgrades

DLP

MilesNutNYC

Brad9696: I've seen this on so many of the flights I've taken, and it is irritating. The concept of SWUs is great, and I commend DL but the implementation of actually upgrading those with Y, B, or M fares (and some others fares on AF/KLM, etc.) is poor. Just last week, I was flying JFK-AMS-JNB-CPT (on KLM) & vice versa with some legs of my itinerary on a M fare. This fare qualifies for an upgrade, and I knew, for certain, there were seats available on at least 1 leg. I contacted DL by phone and approached several gate reps from both airlines, but to no avail. It seems like DL and SkyTeam are better at saying no or conjuring excuses than providing their loyal customers the perks that have been advertised.

Prior to DL taking over NW, I had been given a few complimentary int'l upgrades, regardless of the coach fare for which I had purchased, but the cabin crew seemed to acknowledge that a gesture like that goes a long way -- plus, the BC (now BE) cabin would have been half-full. Now, the crew could care less if 300 passengers board a plane that only has 1/4 of the BE cabin full...or a cabin full of DL employees.

And, on a side note, it's almost comical to me that, along with the employees flying in BE, the airline puts the flight crews in great hotels (for DL in SYD, it's The Four Seasons; for KLM in CPT, it's the Westin Grand).

vasantn

Why is that comical? Would it make you feel better if they stayed in a hostel?

MilesNutNYC

You seem to have taken my remark personally and you are overly defensive about a comment intended to be nonchalant at best. We're not talking about life or death issues here, so please relax.

For loyal FFers who are promised a number of perks, it is worrisome to me when I can't enjoy the full range of those perks, namely SWUs, at the expense of off-duty employees (who are given BE seats instead of coach). Furthermore, I'm well aware that the airline and hotel industries have negotiated agreements, but for crews to be staying at high-end hotels (instead of 3* hotels) on a regular basis seems a bit much for an ailing industry that has consistently struggled financially. Thus, the comical part, if you will, is that it seems non-exec. level DL & ST employees are treated to a better set of perks than even the airline's highest-tiered FFers.

vasantn

I'm not taking it personally, nor am I defensive. I don't work for an airline and I am a top-tier FF on AA and have been one on DL, so I completely understand your frustration.

However, griping about negotiated perks that are provided to airline staff, especially when they do not affect your benefits, does not help your argument.

I also believe that with the new policy regarding day-of-departure international upgrades, nonrevs taking seats that should go to FFs should be a thing of the past.

Now if you want to argue that SWU upgrades should not be limited to those paying extortionate fares (i.e., pax on lower than YBM fares should get a shot at the BE seats before nonrevs), I'm in full agreement. But that would require a policy change unrelated to the quality level of crew accommodations.

(I'm surprised to be in a DL defender role!)

avflyer

I wouldn't sweat this part of it because I bet DL pays less for these rooms than you do at a Motel 6. I am not saying you stay at Motel 6's but simply that DL's corporate rate is mostly like extremely sweet and pretty much on par with the rate at lesser properties.

FoPAA

The Four Seasons is not the current layover hotel in Sydney for Delta crews.

Kahuna

and just how does a cabin full of non-revs keep the integrity of the product high?

aquastar831

Currently I have 8 SWUs that I got when I rolled PM (2010 and 2011 benefits selection) that I want to use, but it sucks to have to essentially take a gamble by buying an M or higher fare in order to be able to use it, and even then, not guaranteed to get it. And I don't think I've ever bought a B or Y fare.

Therefore, you probably end up paying $100s, maybe even over $1,000 more to risk a gamble for a BE seat for international that you may not even get. But it sounds like Delta is changing it up a little more where if there is "any" empty BE seat now, you can get it, and not these stories that I've been hearing that it's not in the Z bucket and BE seats are left empty on an outgoing flight. If that's the case, I may be more willing to take the gamble. I could've done it a few weeks ago on my international MR from DCA-DTW-LHR, had I known that there were going to be about a dozen empty BE seats. I ended up buying directly into BE.

Maybe I'll try doing a run to HNL first for next year to burn some SWUs since you only need K or higher to get into BE for the A333s.

TravellingMan

I am out of arguments on this topic, but have decided to vote with my feet. Try out Oneworld along with my Star and drop Sky. It would be a harsh landing - Diamond to nothing. I cannot give a stronger message than that to Delta.

Spiff

You can request a status comp on *A - pick the carrier you don't have status on and ask them to match your DL DM. I suppose if you're already 1K, there's not much to be gained other than perhaps hoping your additional spend from DL to UA will make you GS.

You can do a challenge on American. Fly as little as 6667 miles and get Gold. A challenge to Platinum is available too. It beats the heck out of climbing all the way to EXP the traditional way.