kyushuman

Exactly which dates did you find DL BE on NRT-SIN in "Low"?
Because there are plenty of people here who would be quite impressed with your tech savvy.
I didn't know they cut the We/Th flights, good catch.
With Star Alliance and CO's web site, you can find partner flights, too. They added this feature on THE DAY they joined *A. Hmm, must be very difficult to add to a website huh?
Not DL--they deem it a better use of its customers' time to call and take up phone agents' time than to be able to book online. So it's either that crazy idea--OR, they make it purposefully harder to use DL miles on partner awards, which they'd have to pay for... OR they're pathetically inept in IT. Which is it?

DiverDave

I didn't say I found "Low" on Delta for that route. But I'm not focused on just that one route.

If you can pick one route and claim it is the benchmark for the worth of Skymiles, I am free to pick another route and use it in the same way.

More to the point, why do you ignore how OP is charging 60K NRT-SIN for their low, almost identical to Delta's 65K medium.

Doesn't take much tech savvy to visit the web sites and collect actual data. Maybe you should give it a try.

David

redtailshark

Why should I have to correct DL's mistake, if in fact it's a mistake? Other airlines make their awards available at stated levels, whether SaverPass or EasyPass or whatever. Why ought DL to be given a pass on this when none of their competitors have this problem?

You are correct about OP mileage WRT to NRT-SIN. It was my mistake. In my zeal to denounce the SM program - which is as you know not a difficult task - I quoted the one-way figure. You're right, the 30k through OP from NRT to SIN is indeed one way. It is 60k from NRT at SaverPass. My bad. Get WBurcham's gator out of his foot and send it to bite my butt.

As you note, availability is good.

And through MP, this can indeed be done for 30k.

Also, for non-Japan origins on OnePass, i.e. North Asia, to South Asia, J can be had for 30k on OP. So, ICN-SIN, for example, or PEK-SIN, price out at 30k in J.

It's not bogus or dishonest to state that SM is 7.5 times worse than its competitor program, UA MP, in this case. True, SM is only 3.8 times worse than OP, on days when the 225k redemption applies. And I don't see why such outrage that this number is being used. That's not a fictional amount, it is factual, not every day agreed, but it is still what DL actually demands for redemption for that route on certain days.

Now, I did discover something interesting, and much more promising. When I searched DL.COM for Y on a random date, it showed 40k as the return amount. But when I clicked through to pricing, this dropped to 20k for the date I checked.

That was the legendary WP value. If it would actually ticket at 20k, and even better, if J were available at 30k as was, then there would be a lot less to holler about.

The route may not be important to you, but as you see, it was and is important to WP customers. Lots of us used to, or do, live in Asia, or have regular business there. WP was a global program, in a meanigful way. Unlike SM.

And you must agree, it doesn't say much for SM that although my comparison to OP for the NRT to SIN route wasn't as unfavorable as originally stated, it is that bad compared with UA MP. And, still, if SM only 3.8 times worse than OP, then that must be truly :-: best in class :-: n'est ce pas. Je comprends, bien sur.

moondog

BTW, I'm pretty sure this is a mistake in the UA award chart; if you compare intra-N. Asia and N. Asia-->S. Asia, you'll see what I'm getting at. (I've never brought this fact up in the UA forum for fear of having it corrected by a lurker.)

ETA: I'm aware of the fact that both DL and NW used to charge 30k in C for everything intra-Asia. But, in the new environment, this is a sweet spot for UA miles,... assuming you can score seats on SQ.

mnredfox

Sadly most of us NW folks (including me) are letting go of the old WP value. I doubt DL would ever get there (not will I forget). But recent examples of availability (still very sparse if you ask me) is a glimmer of hope. I hope it only gets better, then so will my rating of SM.

DiverDave

I didn't say give them a pass, I just asked if you had queried them about the 225K. I am just curious that you ccan't be bothered since the route seems to matter quite a lot to you:

Ah, just a minor little omission of fact that doesn't really matter since your goal was so very noble.

While we're on your noble goal, does it matter to you that on most days you can book this route for 65K on Delta while every day you can book it for 60K on Continental. Hardly the 7.5x worse. In the month I cited, you could only book the 225K on ONE day for the whole month.

Well maybe that is a mistake also:I think dishonest is a perfectly accurate word to use, considering that you continue to shout this discredited number as if it somehow is a meaningful sample.

You heap scorn on Delta for their claims of domestic awards being freely available at 25K for average Joe. Yet the days and route pairs at which somebody in the US could find a domestic coach award ticket at 25K would vastly exceed the one day of the month on the one route which costs 3.8x OP or 7.5x MP.

You're like a cop who nailed somebody doing 75 in a 45 zone. And you write them up for 195 mph. I just don't get it.

3.8 times worse than OP on one route. One route. One route. One route.

I'll talk to WBurcham about the gator. I hear it's :-: :-: BEST IN CLASS :-: :-:

David

redtailshark

I quit using DL in a meaningful way last summer, so my SM simply don't accrue at the pace needed to make this an issue any more. It's a technical outrage. If I paid to fly DL as much as I used to fly NW to earn those value-free SM, I'd be hot under the collar too.

In that month, perhaps. But still, there is no case - none - where SM outperforms OP. That's :-: best in class :-:

I can't speak to UA's factual redemption other than by looking at the published chart, I don't have MP miles.

How so, discredited? I don't understand. This outrageous redemption demand actually exists. You verified it yourself.

Not nearly as much as I do for the hated IOS, the intra-Asia redemptions and int'l Biz to LatAm, EU and Asia.

No, because there would be no case of doing 195mph. But there is a case of the multiple being 7.5 compared with MP. You acknowledge you found it yourself. It is not factually incorrect to state that SM requires 7.5 times the mileage of MP in this case. Frequency is not the same as absolute threshold performance. Which we've found here.

Yes, WBurcham's gators are best in class, for sure. But why don't you direct them at SM management responsible for this shambles, and not me for calling out the SM shenanigans.

It's not just about this one route, extremely bad though it is. I know you probably don't want to search the archive, but last fall I compared a number of direct comparisons between OP and SM for forthcoming redemptions. Such as this example here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...tual-case.html

Evidently, I need to repeat that for my last fifteen redemptions since June, similarly to the case above, OP required fewer miles and in many cases, fewer $ in taxes and fees. There was one case where SM worked better, a domestic redemption during the Christmas break, for which it wanted 42.5k for F/Y itin, while OP wanted 50k for Y both ways.

If there was even trade between awards, or even a slight bias, then SM would be less of an affront. But for my actual redemptions, measured by frequency, for the actual redemptions I've performed, OP beat SM 93.2% of the time. If SM is best in class, what does that make OP - best in the entire intergalactic wormhole?

I'm by no means the only person who's noticed this slight problem with the :-: best in class :-: SM program, take a look at DL board traffic over the previous few months to find numerous other people posting similar outrages.

moondog

Mistake or not, UA honors its award chart (both online and over the phone).

WBurcham

Piss & moan but don't do anything about it. Typical.


Please, I'd send 'em to take your hands, not your butt.

As for where else they are going/have gone, trust me, they are going to the places they need to get action taken.

redtailshark

WBurcham, you know better than that. I'm not given to sitting on my ..., at least, not until I've exhausted all reasonable channels. You should be aware that I've taken such action as is available to me multiple times, including TTUs, and this..

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...nwa-elite.html

You old-time DL guys are the ones bending over to excuse and accept the SM outrages without protest. I find it ironic I'm being accused of doing nothing one moment, and at another, of "ruining" the entire DL board on FT. Which is it?

So, you don't deny you own these monsters in your backyard swamp. Why don't you set them on the masters of the SM program? Don't bite the messenger, bite those who set award levels at, for instance, 225k from NRT to SIN in J, or 550k from SDF-LIS in J. Bite those who proclaim their product to be :-: best in class :-: when it patently isn't so.

WBurcham

Oh, I have...

BF263533

Not all the DO old-timers. I have left Delta twice before as my primary carrier and will do so again if the situation does not show improvement by September. Delta needs some time to adjust to the merger.

People need to try other airlines' services and frequent flyer programs in order to properly rate a program.

We all need to try to work together to identify issues and how we can try to get Delta management to tweak here and tweak there to improve the program without a net negative impact to the bottom line.

I have been playing the frequesnt flyer game for almost 29 years now, and the game is getting bumpy here at Delta. Let's continue to debate and voice our concerns and hope Delta addresses some of the concerns.

Since 2002 the frequent flyer experience has been a downhill slide for probably all airline programs. We need to be open and respectful to the opinions of others, and identify the competitive issues with the hope that Delta addresses them.