The Definitive "How To Search for Low Tier Business Awards"
Feb 2, 2013, 6:44 am
#1637
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
This is very odd, AND incorrect. I can even price it out online and it does the same thing without a stopover. I just used 17Aug2013 as an arbitrary date. SYD-LAX shows up for 150k miles in business (low). Then LAX-SJD shows up for 60k miles in F (low). There's a 2.5hr layover between the flights which is fine. Then when you search SYD-SJD it says 210k miles and gives the same flights that were both low, obviously adding the two and considering it as two awards.
Delta's award chart lists Australia-Mexico as 150k miles round trip in business. MPM (max permitted mileage) is listed at 10,095 and you are well below that on SYD-LAX-SJD at 8,399. As mtkeller said, Delta publishes this route but it is split into two fares (LAX-SYD and SYD-SJD). That is probably the hang up, but it SHOULDN'T prevent this award. They do the same thing when booking SYD-ATL via LAX and that is definitely bookable on a single award fare, and isn't broken up into 150k+45k.
I would ask to talk to a supervisor noting the award chart stating the mileage as 150k, that it is within the MPM, that it is on a published routing, and that all segments are individually available at low. You could also try tweeting @deltaassist, or try private messaging one of the DL reps here on FlyerTalk (they don't post much, but I hear they do respond to some PM's). DwayneSkyMiles would probably be the guy to contact.
Edit:
the only thing I saw that might cause an issue (but I have no clue) is that in the routing rules for SYD-SJD, it has it as SYD-MEX with add on destination of SJD.
I don't know what this means exactly, and if it is what the problem is. But it sticks out to me.
Delta's award chart lists Australia-Mexico as 150k miles round trip in business. MPM (max permitted mileage) is listed at 10,095 and you are well below that on SYD-LAX-SJD at 8,399. As mtkeller said, Delta publishes this route but it is split into two fares (LAX-SYD and SYD-SJD). That is probably the hang up, but it SHOULDN'T prevent this award. They do the same thing when booking SYD-ATL via LAX and that is definitely bookable on a single award fare, and isn't broken up into 150k+45k.
I would ask to talk to a supervisor noting the award chart stating the mileage as 150k, that it is within the MPM, that it is on a published routing, and that all segments are individually available at low. You could also try tweeting @deltaassist, or try private messaging one of the DL reps here on FlyerTalk (they don't post much, but I hear they do respond to some PM's). DwayneSkyMiles would probably be the guy to contact.
Edit:
the only thing I saw that might cause an issue (but I have no clue) is that in the routing rules for SYD-SJD, it has it as SYD-MEX with add on destination of SJD.
I don't know what this means exactly, and if it is what the problem is. But it sticks out to me.
Booked for 150k per person!! The first 3 agents kept telling me it wasnt valid because of the stop over. I told them it was pricing at 210k without any stopover. They made up a few other strange reasons too which I wasnt going to let the Delta dumb agents pull over on me. Thanks to the friendly help by ROKNROLL and MTKELLER on this one.
My guess is that they couldnt find any restrictions to price the award at 150k and finally gave up and just manually changed it for me. It was definitely worth my time investment to follow this one up.
Feb 2, 2013, 10:18 am
#1638
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Programs: HHonors Gold , National Emerald Exec, Hertz Presidents, Delta Gold
Posts: 2,604
And....... 130 minutes on the phone later with 2 different agents, 1 customer service desk and then the international rate desk... SUCCESS!!! Got my SYD-LAX-SJD SJD-LAX/SYD
Booked for 150k per person!! The first 3 agents kept telling me it wasnt valid because of the stop over. I told them it was pricing at 210k without any stopover. They made up a few other strange reasons too which I wasnt going to let the Delta dumb agents pull over on me. Thanks to the friendly help by ROKNROLL and MTKELLER on this one.
My guess is that they couldnt find any restrictions to price the award at 150k and finally gave up and just manually changed it for me. It was definitely worth my time investment to follow this one up.
Booked for 150k per person!! The first 3 agents kept telling me it wasnt valid because of the stop over. I told them it was pricing at 210k without any stopover. They made up a few other strange reasons too which I wasnt going to let the Delta dumb agents pull over on me. Thanks to the friendly help by ROKNROLL and MTKELLER on this one.
My guess is that they couldnt find any restrictions to price the award at 150k and finally gave up and just manually changed it for me. It was definitely worth my time investment to follow this one up.
It's a shame that Delta put you through 130 minutes on the phone to get their award to price correctly.
I really hope you don't need a date change!
Feb 2, 2013, 6:11 pm
#1639
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
Funny enough you mention that because when I got the confirm email they didnt actually book the same flight as I had on hold. The booked SYD-LAX-SJD then SJD-LAX-SYD and eliminated my stopover in LAX. I called and spend 40 minutes waiting for a rep who changed the booking (no fee) within about 3 minutes. I was expecting a much longer drawn out process than that.
Feb 3, 2013, 6:54 pm
#1640
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gulf Coast/Ventura County/Somewhere in between
Programs: DL GM, Marriott PP, Avis Something or other
Posts: 4,431
What am I doing wrong?
EF tells me the flight I want BOS-FCO shows A7, which is AZ's code for Premium Economy Award. My return flight shows Z2, which is Business Award. I have talked to three Delta agents who all say they tried a long sell for two seats and both flights showed zero availability in both J and Y. They insist they are getting this response from AZ. Is there some brilliantly penetrating question I should be asking? 
Feb 3, 2013, 7:02 pm
#1641
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
EF tells me the flight I want BOS-FCO shows A7, which is AZ's code for Premium Economy Award. My return flight shows Z2, which is Business Award. I have talked to three Delta agents who all say they tried a long sell for two seats and both flights showed zero availability in both J and Y. They insist they are getting this response from AZ. Is there some brilliantly penetrating question I should be asking?
Also, Premium Economy seats are not available for partner redemption.
Feb 3, 2013, 7:25 pm
#1642
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gulf Coast/Ventura County/Somewhere in between
Programs: DL GM, Marriott PP, Avis Something or other
Posts: 4,431
Didn't know that...thanks! Outbound is AZ 615 on 05/21/13 showing A7. No Z availability showing so I requested A. Return flight is FCO-BOS on AZ 614 on 06/03/13 showing Z2 A7. Delta agent(s) reiterated AZ replied to their long sell request with zero availability in J and Y.
Feb 3, 2013, 7:56 pm
#1643
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
Didn't know that...thanks! Outbound is AZ 615 on 05/21/13 showing A7. No Z availability showing so I requested A. Return flight is FCO-BOS on AZ 614 on 06/03/13 showing Z2 A7. Delta agent(s) reiterated AZ replied to their long sell request with zero availability in J and Y.
[KVS Availability Tool 7.1.4/Diamond - Amadeus: Awards/SkyTeam/FR-AF]
Code:
FCO Rome Fiumicino IT [LIRF] BOS Boston Logan Intl MA US [KBOS] MON 03 Jun 2013 | 2 Seats Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive St Availability --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------- AZ 614 FCO 11:00 BOS 14:20 CS+ WS/ YS0 AZ 316 FCO 07:00 CDG 09:10 CS0 WS/ YS2 -> AF 332 CDG 13:35 BOS 15:05 AF 1005 FCO 07:10 CDG 09:20 CX0 WX0 YS9 -> AF 332 CDG 13:35 BOS 15:05 AF 1005 FCO 07:10 CDG 09:20 CX0 WS9 YA9 -> AF 322 CDG 19:10 BOS 20:35 AF 1205 FCO 10:20 CDG 12:30 CX0 WX0 YS9 -> AF 332 CDG 13:35 BOS 15:05 AF 1205 FCO 10:20 CDG 12:30 CX0 WS9 YA9 -> AF 322 CDG 19:10 BOS 20:35 AF 1505 FCO 12:50 CDG 15:00 CX0 WS9 YA9 -> AF 322 CDG 19:10 BOS 20:35 AF 1931 FCO 14:05 ORY 16:05 CX0 WS9 YA9 -> AF 322 CDG 19:10 BOS 20:35 AZ 324 FCO 14:30 CDG 16:40 CS0 WS/ YS2 -> AF 322 CDG 19:10 BOS 20:35 AZ 330 FCO 15:35 CDG 17:45 CS0 WS/ YS2 -> AF 322 CDG 19:10 BOS 20:35
Feb 4, 2013, 12:33 am
#1644
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
Didn't know that...thanks! Outbound is AZ 615 on 05/21/13 showing A7. No Z availability showing so I requested A. Return flight is FCO-BOS on AZ 614 on 06/03/13 showing Z2 A7. Delta agent(s) reiterated AZ replied to their long sell request with zero availability in J and Y.
Feb 4, 2013, 6:34 am
#1645
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gulf Coast/Ventura County/Somewhere in between
Programs: DL GM, Marriott PP, Avis Something or other
Posts: 4,431
Thanks, I'll try that on my next call. Am I using the correct code with "Z" for Business? If Premium Economy is not available for partner award I can quit using "A", I guess.
Feb 4, 2013, 7:22 am
#1646
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
Yes, you need Z for business. You can't redeem for Premium Economy, so just ignore that. Weekends seem to be a bad time to call for AZ award space. Maybe the computers in Rome take the weekend off or something.
Feb 5, 2013, 9:06 am
#1647
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...er-thread.html
Feb 5, 2013, 1:35 pm
#1648
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4
Updated instrutions for 2013?
Hey guys. This 3+ year old thread with 110 pages of replies is overwhelming. I know the Delta award engine still sucks but the instrutions from the OP are confusing and I can't find an "updated" thread with more concise instructions.
Please clarify what this means...
Am I using the "Book Award Travel" search or regular search, which only returns $$s not miles? How do you search for both coach and business "mileage" redemption? I have tried both the standard search checking "Book Award Travel" as well as the dedicated award search, which might in fact be the same.
I have seen all the same problems reports over 3 years ago, where the low-tier (green boxes appear on the calendar but the 100k roundtrip is never available).
I am trying to find PDX-AMS roundtrip (2 tix) in June (between the 10th and 25th) for 100k. Hell I would even take 200k but I can't seem to lock it down. NExt step is to call the Platinum help desk. Any guidance or updated instructions using the current search tools would be greatly appreciated!
Please clarify what this means...
Search for USA - AMS / CDG ONE WAY in Coach by Mileage.
In the flights displayed, look for those priced at 100,000, with seating in First / Business.
If you cannot find any 100,000 mile flights with First / Business seating, do another search but search for Business this time.
In the flights displayed, look for those priced at 100,000, with seating in First / Business.
If you cannot find any 100,000 mile flights with First / Business seating, do another search but search for Business this time.
I have seen all the same problems reports over 3 years ago, where the low-tier (green boxes appear on the calendar but the 100k roundtrip is never available).
I am trying to find PDX-AMS roundtrip (2 tix) in June (between the 10th and 25th) for 100k. Hell I would even take 200k but I can't seem to lock it down. NExt step is to call the Platinum help desk. Any guidance or updated instructions using the current search tools would be greatly appreciated!
Feb 5, 2013, 2:43 pm
#1649
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Programs: DL DM, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,874
You should be checking the book award travel box when searching, if it returns flights priced in $, then it's not right.
Also realize that this thread and it's techniques/tips does not mean you will magically get low tier awards. It is the best method to find them, but they are still very hard to find.
Basically you should only be searching segment by segment, and if you can find them all in low, then you can piece it together to make it a full trip in low. Just as the thread says, first search to see if you can find ANY direct flights from ANY Delta/KLM/AF/Alitalia hub to a European city. If you can, then you need to see if you can find a flight from PDX to whever the US departure city is. And if the trans atlantic portion isn't direct to AMS, you then need to see if you can find the flight from your European landing city to AMS.
It takes a long time and is very annoying. But that is basically what you do. You can't just plug in PDX-AMS and expect DL to find the best options for you.
The problem of the green box appearing when there is no low tier usually has to do with the fact that SOME portion of one or more of those flights might be available in low, but if there's a stop or two in the routing and any other leg is medium/high it will price the award at the higher level. This is why the technique is to ONLY search segment by segment on direct non-stop flights.
So let's say you found ORD-CDG available on Air France. Next you would need to find PDX-ORD. You could start by just plugging in PDX-ORD into the Delta award search and if you are lucky there might be some low level options. If not, you then need to look at all the possible routings that will get you from PDX to ORD (i.e. via MSP, DTW, ATL, SLC, etc). You'd then search for direct flights on PDX-MSP, PDX-DTW, PDX-ATL, and so on. If you find any of those at low, then you would see if you could find the next segment of XXX-ORD in low. You can mix and match business and economy between segments too, but it HAS to be in low otherwise it will bump the whole trip up in miles. If you can find your way to ORD in low in time to get on the TATL flight, then you would see if you can find CDG-AMS available. If not, you start over. If so, then you got to Europe and need to start over doing the same for the return.
Also realize that this thread and it's techniques/tips does not mean you will magically get low tier awards. It is the best method to find them, but they are still very hard to find.
Basically you should only be searching segment by segment, and if you can find them all in low, then you can piece it together to make it a full trip in low. Just as the thread says, first search to see if you can find ANY direct flights from ANY Delta/KLM/AF/Alitalia hub to a European city. If you can, then you need to see if you can find a flight from PDX to whever the US departure city is. And if the trans atlantic portion isn't direct to AMS, you then need to see if you can find the flight from your European landing city to AMS.
It takes a long time and is very annoying. But that is basically what you do. You can't just plug in PDX-AMS and expect DL to find the best options for you.
The problem of the green box appearing when there is no low tier usually has to do with the fact that SOME portion of one or more of those flights might be available in low, but if there's a stop or two in the routing and any other leg is medium/high it will price the award at the higher level. This is why the technique is to ONLY search segment by segment on direct non-stop flights.
So let's say you found ORD-CDG available on Air France. Next you would need to find PDX-ORD. You could start by just plugging in PDX-ORD into the Delta award search and if you are lucky there might be some low level options. If not, you then need to look at all the possible routings that will get you from PDX to ORD (i.e. via MSP, DTW, ATL, SLC, etc). You'd then search for direct flights on PDX-MSP, PDX-DTW, PDX-ATL, and so on. If you find any of those at low, then you would see if you could find the next segment of XXX-ORD in low. You can mix and match business and economy between segments too, but it HAS to be in low otherwise it will bump the whole trip up in miles. If you can find your way to ORD in low in time to get on the TATL flight, then you would see if you can find CDG-AMS available. If not, you start over. If so, then you got to Europe and need to start over doing the same for the return.
Last edited by roknroll; Feb 5, 2013 at 2:48 pm
Feb 5, 2013, 7:53 pm
#1650
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LAS
Programs: PA FT, TW Gold, NW/CO PE, VK Eagleflyer
Posts: 7,173
You should be checking the book award travel box when searching, if it returns flights priced in $, then it's not right.
Also realize that this thread and it's techniques/tips does not mean you will magically get low tier awards. It is the best method to find them, but they are still very hard to find.
Basically you should only be searching segment by segment, and if you can find them all in low, then you can piece it together to make it a full trip in low. Just as the thread says, first search to see if you can find ANY direct flights from ANY Delta/KLM/AF/Alitalia hub to a European city. If you can, then you need to see if you can find a flight from PDX to whever the US departure city is. And if the trans atlantic portion isn't direct to AMS, you then need to see if you can find the flight from your European landing city to AMS.
It takes a long time and is very annoying. But that is basically what you do. You can't just plug in PDX-AMS and expect DL to find the best options for you.
The problem of the green box appearing when there is no low tier usually has to do with the fact that SOME portion of one or more of those flights might be available in low, but if there's a stop or two in the routing and any other leg is medium/high it will price the award at the higher level. This is why the technique is to ONLY search segment by segment on direct non-stop flights.
So let's say you found ORD-CDG available on Air France. Next you would need to find PDX-ORD. You could start by just plugging in PDX-ORD into the Delta award search and if you are lucky there might be some low level options. If not, you then need to look at all the possible routings that will get you from PDX to ORD (i.e. via MSP, DTW, ATL, SLC, etc). You'd then search for direct flights on PDX-MSP, PDX-DTW, PDX-ATL, and so on. If you find any of those at low, then you would see if you could find the next segment of XXX-ORD in low. You can mix and match business and economy between segments too, but it HAS to be in low otherwise it will bump the whole trip up in miles. If you can find your way to ORD in low in time to get on the TATL flight, then you would see if you can find CDG-AMS available. If not, you start over. If so, then you got to Europe and need to start over doing the same for the return.
Also realize that this thread and it's techniques/tips does not mean you will magically get low tier awards. It is the best method to find them, but they are still very hard to find.
Basically you should only be searching segment by segment, and if you can find them all in low, then you can piece it together to make it a full trip in low. Just as the thread says, first search to see if you can find ANY direct flights from ANY Delta/KLM/AF/Alitalia hub to a European city. If you can, then you need to see if you can find a flight from PDX to whever the US departure city is. And if the trans atlantic portion isn't direct to AMS, you then need to see if you can find the flight from your European landing city to AMS.
It takes a long time and is very annoying. But that is basically what you do. You can't just plug in PDX-AMS and expect DL to find the best options for you.
The problem of the green box appearing when there is no low tier usually has to do with the fact that SOME portion of one or more of those flights might be available in low, but if there's a stop or two in the routing and any other leg is medium/high it will price the award at the higher level. This is why the technique is to ONLY search segment by segment on direct non-stop flights.
So let's say you found ORD-CDG available on Air France. Next you would need to find PDX-ORD. You could start by just plugging in PDX-ORD into the Delta award search and if you are lucky there might be some low level options. If not, you then need to look at all the possible routings that will get you from PDX to ORD (i.e. via MSP, DTW, ATL, SLC, etc). You'd then search for direct flights on PDX-MSP, PDX-DTW, PDX-ATL, and so on. If you find any of those at low, then you would see if you could find the next segment of XXX-ORD in low. You can mix and match business and economy between segments too, but it HAS to be in low otherwise it will bump the whole trip up in miles. If you can find your way to ORD in low in time to get on the TATL flight, then you would see if you can find CDG-AMS available. If not, you start over. If so, then you got to Europe and need to start over doing the same for the return.
Clearly he has built the Best In Class loyalty program.