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-   -   DL response to CO changes? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1025264-dl-response-co-changes.html)

c_d Dec 8, 2009 11:02 pm


Originally Posted by WBurcham (Post 12952246)
I wouldn't burn my AA miles to LHR but have experience finding no availability (except for the 2 weeks most recently opened to award availability) as a result of my Oneworld award. I would say that DL availability, on their own metal, is similar to AA avail. Couldn't find any saver availability for many of the flights I wanted on AA so I ended up on LA or IB.

Call LH up. A couple of weeks ago, I had the idea to need an award flight within 24hrs (on a Thu with take of Fri afternoon). I was highly impressed that LH managed to complete the award booking in 10 minutes, although no availability for one segment was shown online.

GUWonder Dec 8, 2009 11:06 pm


Originally Posted by TheMadBrewer (Post 12952605)
Someone who buys tickets in the lowest 3 of Delta's fare classes (L, U and T). So somebody not buying last minute, refundable, or BE tickets, etc.

The first sentence is accurate. The second sentence has some issues: the overwhelming majority of the airline customers who buy last-minute, refundable or BE tickets do often or usually buy tickets in the lowest 3 fare classes.

DLPhoenix Dec 8, 2009 11:25 pm

PMU/SWU Policy and International Expansion
 
DL's FF program may be in line with the competition for domestic travel.
For international travel it barely squeeks by US.
The difference is that US made a concious decision to compete on price. DL is expanding internationaly in an effort to maintain higher yields.

DL is announcing upgraded cabins while AA/UA and now CO are actually upgrading their premium cabins.
UA/AA/CO premium travelers can now pay less for premium cabin travel when they are on vacation. DL premium travelers will have to shell out a few thousand dollars extra per ticket to benefit from their status when they are on vacation.
And the international business travelers that work for cost concious organizations (a group that is growing quickly IMHO) - They can hope for an op-up and consider it a perk.

It seems as if Delta management is listnening to the Delta PR pitch rather that to their customers, it is about time those would start talking with their wallets.
I booked my next international trip with CO (before this announcement), it may be awkward with my screen name, but it is definetly more cost effective.

DLP

WBurcham Dec 8, 2009 11:44 pm


Originally Posted by DLPhoenix (Post 12952714)
DL is announcing upgraded cabins while AA/UA and now CO are actually upgrading their premium cabins.

From a fleet perspective, it's going to be a while before a wholesale overhaul of the cabins happens. The flat beds DL offers in J have come before similar FULL FLAT products from AA, CO, UA & US.


Originally Posted by DLPhoenix (Post 12952714)
UA/AA/CO premium travelers can now pay less for premium cabin travel when they are on vacation.

Subject to availability of course. But in agreement.


Originally Posted by DLPhoenix (Post 12952714)
I booked my next international trip with CO (before this announcement), it may be awkward with my screen name, but it is definetly more cost effective.
DLP

That is true as well.

mnredfox Dec 8, 2009 11:59 pm


Originally Posted by mersk862 (Post 12950571)
Capacity controls are out of OnePass award buckets. Not great, but absolutely blows Delta's offering out of the water.

Delta's PMUseless is now an absolute joke of a program, especially for Diamond level flyers. Systemwide upgrades is one where they are worst in class and it can't be argued.

Agreed, I hope DL takes this change from CO seriously.


Originally Posted by WBurcham (Post 12951846)
For International flyers, this announcement is great.

I'll have to admit this might be the thing that tips me over. I've been holding off doing a status match with CO til the end of this year. But with increased international travel plans and DL's care-less attitude with international (increased BE international, partner fees, ridiculous out of country originating fees, etc etc etc) I may jump boat. I've ALWAYS been way more impressed with CO's J/F product over DL and NW. I sure hope DL responds...

ocdb8r Dec 9, 2009 4:11 am


Originally Posted by monitor (Post 12951565)
Even though DL follows what is being discussed here, I do not think that they at all care about cultivating the crowd that gathers here. They have little respect for the LUT flyers (as the recent DEQM promo shows) and have no interest in putting these people into its premium international cabins. .

I'm sorry, but if this is the case, DL is absolutely out of their mind. They are the largest carrier in the world. Who the hell do they think they should target. There certainly aren't enough business travelers with unlimited travel budgets left to prop up a carrier the size of DL. They are never going to get them all anyway, therefore they sure as hell better realize it's enticing the LUT flyers to pay just a bit more to stick to DL metal. I am willing to fill their planes and play the upgrade lottery for a small premium...I have even been willing to pay a large premium to use the 503's. However, at the end of the day, B/M fares offer NOTHING extra (to a flyer that doesn't need the extra EQM's) and I am not going to purchase them unless I have to. I purchase Y when I need the flexibility, but otherwise I am an LUT flyer. DL would be remiss to alienate such flyers.

More to the point....Over the past few months I have made a real effort to stay neutral in the back and forth between DL and NW flyers. I don't believe DL is evil or that they have completely ruined WorldPerks...it was not a perfect program to begin with. I am quite happy to work through the "integration issues" and bite my tongue for a few months (although I wish DL was a bit better at communicating with us).

However, I have to admit, the recent changes by the other carriers have made it more and more difficult to keep my eyes from wandering. I think I am like the majority of people here in that upgrades are priority #1, both domestic and international. Recent changes in other programs have nearly wiped away any advantage DL/NW held in domestic upgrades and has at the same time left them at the bottom of the pack for international upgrades....and I am one who has managed to use 4 of the 6 upgrades I received this year.

I am committed to DL for 2010 flying. I think many on here are too quick to jump ship to other programs. It takes time for DL to respond to the market, and that is ok with me. However, I will be on the floor flabbergasted if DL really takes no action on this front in the next 4 months. I don't see how they can escape addressing this change.

avidflyer Dec 9, 2009 4:59 am


Originally Posted by ocdb8r (Post 12953344)
I'm sorry, but if this is the case, DL is absolutely out of their mind. They are the largest carrier in the world. Who the hell do they think they should target. There certainly aren't enough business travelers with unlimited travel budgets left to prop up a carrier the size of DL. They are never going to get them all anyway, therefore they sure as hell better realize it's enticing the LUT flyers to pay just a bit more to stick to DL metal. I am willing to fill their planes and play the upgrade lottery for a small premium...I have even been willing to pay a large premium to use the 503's. However, at the end of the day, B/M fares offer NOTHING extra (to a flyer that doesn't need the extra EQM's) and I am not going to purchase them unless I have to. I purchase Y when I need the flexibility, but otherwise I am an LUT flyer. DL would be remiss to alienate such flyers.

More to the point....Over the past few months I have made a real effort to stay neutral in the back and forth between DL and NW flyers. I don't believe DL is evil or that they have completely ruined WorldPerks...it was not a perfect program to begin with. I am quite happy to work through the "integration issues" and bite my tongue for a few months (although I wish DL was a bit better at communicating with us).

However, I have to admit, the recent changes by the other carriers have made it more and more difficult to keep my eyes from wandering. I think I am like the majority of people here in that upgrades are priority #1, both domestic and international. Recent changes in other programs have nearly wiped away any advantage DL/NW held in domestic upgrades and has at the same time left them at the bottom of the pack for international upgrades....and I am one who has managed to use 4 of the 6 upgrades I received this year.

I am committed to DL for 2010 flying. I think many on here are too quick to jump ship to other programs. It takes time for DL to respond to the market, and that is ok with me. However, I will be on the floor flabbergasted if DL really takes no action on this front in the next 4 months. I don't see how they can escape addressing this change.


The disappointing thing here is that DL had the FIRST shot across the bow and stopped short of delivering the one thing that was clearly lacking: SWU's. I do hope they respond and let's face it; moving is a hassle and re-adjusting to routes and schedules is not trivial. That said for something as major as SWU's for top level elites it will absolutely drive many (myself included) to move very quickly. The new year is on top of us and it is actually a perfect time to make the move if you are going to.
It did not take a physics degree to figure out what was on most top tier flyers minds and it certainly would not have taken a lot of effort to add the right mix of benefits to the SM program. DL had the advantage of being first, and while first gives the competition a good look at the playing field it also can be used to lock up your customers. If DL had given 4 real SWU's in the DM package I HIGHLY DOUBT many travellers would move if CO came out with 6 or even 8. Now DL is in a position of catch-up and that never should have happened. If you are going to be first out of the gate you have to make the shot you take count and I think they missed it here. Again, for the record, DL is my airline and I am not bashing them from the outside, I am criticizing them for pushing me away.

BondAir007 Dec 9, 2009 5:38 am

Didn't anybody notice the small, tiny, and little '*'? On the DL Sky-miles page program. It is SOOOOOOOOO small you have to go the nearest FBI office. Enter a dark room wear special glasses with one red and one blue lens to see the next clue. Which leads to getting a CIA level 5 clearance to Area DL 51. ;)

On the page The '*' means. "The 2010 Sky-Miles program is subject to change depending on other airline FF programs without notice." :p

(As the DL Mgt. sound the alarm red alert)

"Battle stations! Every DL man and woman get your DL RED coats on. We are entering 2010 FF Zone against our former EX friend CO!"

It is gonna be a fun 2010! (sigh)

MikeMpls Dec 9, 2009 6:29 am


Originally Posted by monitor (Post 12951565)
Even though DL follows what is being discussed here, I do not think that they at all care about cultivating the crowd that gathers here. They have little respect for the LUT flyers (as the recent DEQM promo shows) and have no interest in putting these people into its premium international cabins.

You might ask Jeff just how it was that he ended up in his current job instead of sitting at a table down the hall tallying beans. Hint: It has everything to do with the disdain of his predecessor -- Rob Bordon -- & Leaping Leo for LUT fliers.

andrewpartyman Dec 9, 2009 7:20 am

Done With SkyMiles
 
I am a Platinum SkyMiles member. I live in the Detroit-area, so being loyal to Delta was viewed by me as essential as they control Detroit Metro Airport. I fly them internationally on average 3x per month. I had my final straw with Delta last week, and it took a trip with a AA-loyal colleague for me to see the light. We were en route to AMS on NW/Delta. The A-330 was literally empty in business class (only 2 seats occupied). Coach was packed. My colleague was astonished that I wasn't given an upgrade, as a courtesy to someone who flies 100k+ miles with them. He laughed that my only benefit was "priority" boarding which is hardly a benefit at all. Delta is simply not competitive these days. Maybe if they lose enough people like me, they will come to their senses.

I called AA and I am seeing if they will honor my status with Delta and let me switch over. Any hope for this?

rylan Dec 9, 2009 7:30 am

I'd bet that there were people on the standby list waiting for Z inventory to open and use a PMU, and they got stuck sitting in Y even though the front was empty.

DeltaFlyingProf Dec 9, 2009 7:51 am


Originally Posted by ocdb8r (Post 12953344)
I think many on here are too quick to jump ship to other programs. It takes time for DL to respond to the market, and that is ok with me.

Too quick? How can you say that? The issue of PMUs has been a CONSTANT source of complaints over YEARS! You can do a search on FT and find hundreds of complaints. DL has done nothing in those years to address the issue. They cannot be trusted, that has been proven.

Originally Posted by andrewpartyman (Post 12953836)
I called AA and I am seeing if they will honor my status with Delta and let me switch over. Any hope for this?

They have a challenge program to get you Platinum. If it works for you, give it a try, otherwise, you should have taken advantage of the DEQM promo to jump ship as I have done.

TheMadBrewer Dec 9, 2009 7:54 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12952640)
The first sentence is accurate. The second sentence has some issues: the overwhelming majority of the airline customers who buy last-minute, refundable or BE tickets do often or usually buy tickets in the lowest 3 fare classes.

Unclear phrasing on my part: I meant if they are buying a L, U or T fare they are not buying a last minute, refundable or BE ticket for that flight.

Himmelhund Dec 9, 2009 8:42 am

Excuse my dopey question: should know this, could someone tell me what

PMU/SWU: what these are mean/are? Plat-Med-Upgrade is a PMU? SWU don't know.

Thanks.

Denolloyd Dec 9, 2009 8:47 am


Originally Posted by Himmelhund (Post 12954282)
Excuse my dopey question: should know this, could someone tell me what

PMU/SWU: what these are mean/are? Plat-Med-Upgrade is a PMU? SWU don't know.

Thanks.

System Wide Upgrade


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