ClipperDelta

Elaborate? Take a closer look and look at 2009 and you will see that a lot of it is reallocation of capacity. How can there be big increases in capacity when they are hardly getting any new airplanes other than 2 777-200LRs next spring? And 2 77Ls pretty much allow for only ONE very long-haul route?

RealHJ

It looks like now with this at last it will be possible to make a same-day connection from EU to HNL with DL/NW.

NW 253 from AMS arrives at DTW at 10:35am, and the NW 2143 departure to HNL at 12:10pm gives just enough time (1h35m) to make the connection.

Good!

Though just from AMS, nothing from CDG, LHR, FRA or elsewhere that comes in to make the connection to the new DTW-HNL flight.

If I knew this, I wouldn't have booked my RIX-CDG (BT) CDG-ATL (overnight there) ATL-MSP-HNL flight for June 29th/30th, and
would have went instead via AMS and DTW more direct same day on July 2nd, saving a good 24 hours in the total travel time.

N830MH

How do you know where A333 coming from AMS-DTW-HNL? I think NW will have to put on different flight number will be existed. I think it will be just fine to spent there for 1.5 hours layover in DTW. It will be continuation the flight ongoing from DTW-HNL nonstop.

mnredfox

You're joking right?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...owngraded.html

RealHJ

You must have misread my post. I didn't say that it's the same aircraft. Just that now it's possible to make a EU to HNL connection with DL (only with this one AMS-DTW morning flight) same day via DTW, not having to spend a night in ATL or MSP (some 23h59m layover, as is typical now).

The ATL and MSP flights leave earlier (~10am/~11am, respectively), making it impossible to ever connect to those same day, always forcing an overnight nearly 24 hours wasted layover.

longtime lurker

Connecting from a flight to the West Coast (likely KLM) should solve the same-day problem - if you're willing to wait a few hours at LAX/SFO/SEA/PDX and take a 757 to HNL, at least in theory. I don't know what the fare rules allow.

RealHJ

Not possible, all 757's (latest afternoon flights) leave the west coast too early before the earliest flights from EU arrive in the late afternoon at the west coast. Believe me, I've spent 10s of hours on this, there is not a single good routing (i.e. that does not include an overnight stay) other than CO via EWR (which always work out wonderfully, also via IAH) or UA via ORD. I mean it's possible to stay overnight at LAX, SFO or SEA and leave next morning, but the arrival time at HNL will be about the same as via ATL/MSP/DTW, and plus it's a 757 with only domestic business vs. the A333 or 747 (if it's brought back) with the lie-flat WBC seating (sleeping).

Plus, even if that was possible, the cost is usually 2x-3x higher then, and it's not DL/NW for many flights then (if KL, AF), so can't use PU503s for WBC upgrade. (Though now with more routes on the awful DL 767's, the BE upgrade is almost pointless with those cheap seats. I wish that DL would rip out their cheap BE seating in put in the NW WBC true lie flat seating that has good privacy plus is completely flat so can actually sleep (the slight incline really makes no difference and is actually good for health, what matters is that it's flat so can sleep).)

slippahs

No--those are gone as of the end of this year.

longtime lurker

It may be more expensive and impossible to upgrade, but it is possible. NW 8601 (operated by KLM) arrives in LAX at 12:25PM. NW 2333 leaves LAX for HNL at 2:45PM. The LAX MCT from NW International City to NW Domestic city is 50 minutes (though nobody would ever recommend that, and the MCT from a KLM flight should be higher - but I doubt over 2 hours). On Friday/Saturday/Sunday, there's also a DL flight leaving LAX for HNL at 5:55PM, which is well within any MCT. You also should be able to connect from a KLM flight to the NW flight from SFO-HNL every day but Tuesday with a 4+ hour layover at SFO, and may be able to book via the NW flight to SEA to an AS codeshare to PDX or SFO and on to NW's late flights to HNL, or maybe even an AS codeshare on the SEA-HNL leg.

SEA is actually the most logical connection point from Europe to Hawaii - it's the closest you can come to flying the great circle route with a connection in another American city that has meaningful service to both Europe and Hawaii (ANC doesn't count).

N830MH

Why is that?

RealHJ

Hey thanks, that flight via LAX actually does work indeed, and via SFO also (both KL). I don't know why I never saw it. I was mostly focussed on NW/DL flights (vs. KLM, AF - though I guess I can still use my PU503's w/ KL, just won't be able to use the DL equivalent of PU503's next year w/ KL anymore) and preferrably via MSP or ATL, but still was also looking via west coast.

Via SEA is most logical indeed, but nothing works out time-wise via SEA though it seems. NW also seems to be cutting its routes out of SEA to HNL: was twice daily, now only once per day (mornings only), and the AS flight they are usually hesitant to sell as they do have their own out of SEA, but only 8:xxam now, the 5:xxpm was removed earlier this year (along with DCA I also fly to SEA a lot, and now it's either taking AS with the freezing-cold planes and awful food-for-purchase, or NW in the mornings on the way home that is less than ideal as it wastes a full workday).

But actually the best connection point seems, in terms of total travel time and also overall service and flight experience (better planes, better food, same or lesser total travel time, nice connecting airport with a good "Prestige class" lounge), is ICN on KE. HNL-ICN-__(EU) and vice versa. If not wanting PU503 upgrade and the cost is reasonable, personally that'd be my first choice.

sbagdon

Darn, I might actually have to fly to HNL next year. With DTW picking up HKG, SEL, and HNL next year, time to check off some more cities from the to-do list!

FlytheTail

Right after Delta.com becomes highly functional

Aloha1

No flight data loaded as of yet for this run. Smoke and mirrors again?

RealHJ

In the announcement it says that it will be available for booking December 5th. It's not just a new flight, this is also a REMOVAL of three weekly flights MSP-HNL, so everyone who has booked MSP-HNL/HNL-MSP next July 2nd and on on the DTW days now will need to be rebooked, so it's not just adding a new flight, it's also rebooking 1000s of existing bookings that NW has to do here (while there's the positive of DTW-HNL here, the negative is that MSP is yet further marginalized - which is really a shame; one can only wish for the opposite: for ATL to be marginalized and MSP to be strengtened, as would benefit most (non-ATL-based) travellers).