aidanc, what do you suggest travelers from US do w.r.t. prevent the risk of getting stranded at unmanned gas station, toll booths or train stations in Europe because the machines can only accept smart chip cards?

Is there a place one can buy certain cash cards (or so called prepaid cards) that are compatible with chip & pin requirement, say in $50 or $100 denominations? I would not necessary care for personalized PIN in such cards, i.e., concern for lost or theft, is only secondary to be able to pay and go on with my traveling.

I've never had an issue in Europe. Of course, always check the network your ATM card uses.

In Brazil, on the other hand, even though it looked like the ATM was part of the same network as my debit card, very few ATMs would work with my US issued card. Citibank worked, but 2 other banks would not read a non-chipped card it seemed.

This Card which can be loaded with Euros and secured by a Pin seems to come close -- has anyone used this card in Europe or Amsterdam in Pin locations?

Once again, the "pin" you're referring to is an ATM pin and has nothing to do with chip+pin. This card is a local currency mag stripe debit card and nothing more.

That used to be the case, but it does seem as though they've begun issuing some of the Visa Travel Cards with Chip&PIN:
http://www.cashpassport.com/visa/FAQ...asp?content=vi

They also removed the FAQ where they said they didn't offer chip&pin.

Duly noted. Just to make sure that people aren't getting their hopes up, nothing on their website indicates that a chip+pin product is available to anyone in the US. On top of that you have to get these in person at one of their retail locations. The fees are pretty high, and I'm puzzled to see how this product offers any advantage over an ATM/Debit card linked to your checking/savings account.

If it is possible to get a chip/pin card Visa card as a US resident that one can reload, then it provides the ability to use the chip/pin card at unattended kiosks/gas pumps that reject chip-less cards.

(I'm not interested in getting this card, so I basically agree with you.)

I understand that, but I doubt you'll see Travelex offering a chip+pin card to a US resident at one of their retail locations anytime in the near future. I'm taking this stance because I don't see them signing up for the IT support that would need to come with aligning their systems with the chip+pin infrastructure, vs. the plain ol mag swipe/ATM pin.

So back to my original question, since they don't offer a chip+pin product, what advantage does this have over the debit card in your wallet? I guess if you're mugged, you'd cancel your debit card as fast as you'd cancel this one. The only thing I can think of is that if you lose this card you limit your loss to the funds you've loaded on the card. But how often do people lose their cards without noticing?

Too much work, IMHO.

The card only comes in Euro or GBP variants and it is managed out of the UK. The cards could simply come pre-configured to the outlets.

No real advantage then, you're right.
My solution: I don't have any Visa or Mastercard-branded debit cards. I just carry credit cards and two different plain old ATM cards (which require a PIN and therefore only work in ATMs--which is fine by me).

I don't believe you need to rush out and get a pre-paid Chip and PIN card for unattended use.

For Tolls there are MasterCard and Visa rules in place to allow customers who have any branded card type (regardless of chip technology or PIN cardholder verification) to allow the card to be used.

I believe that most Tolls and bridges do not require PINs to be entered (due to the nature of high speed toll acceptance). I also believe that all standard credit cards (Visa or MasterCard) will be accepted without issue. I'm interested in experiences to the contrary by PM.

A quick check in the office here suggests that French tolls only read the mag-stripe of cards (chip or no-chip).

For unattended gas stations, PIN may be required. In some countries, there is a default assumption that you know the PIN for your card, and regardless of mag or chip, you are expected to use a PIN.

From my own experience, I'm thinking of Sweden here, PIN is required. Again, a normal credit card (Visa or MasterCard) will be accepted for this, but you will need the PIN.

Taking a debit card our of it's country of origin can be quite interesting. It will need to have some form of international co-branding (Maestro, VPAY, Visa Electron or Visa Debit). In some countries (like the UK), international debit cards without a chip should be accepted with a signature. In other countries (like Sweden), debit cards will require a PIN at the point of sale even for mag-stripe.

Much of my day-to-day work revolves around the testing and certification of Chip and PIN systems, and all these "Chip and PIN" devices are certified by MasterCard for both chip and mag-stripe cards.

You should not get stranded at an unattended gas station because you don't have a chip card. Not having the PIN for your credit card or the unit not taking your debit card is a different matter.

Can I make it clear that while both mag-stripe and chip cards are co-existing, there is a strong policy from Visa and MasterCard to ensure that both kinds of cards are accepted anywhere the brands are displayed. As previously mentioned, there are retailers who do not understand the policy and give uninformed and misleading information to cardholders.

If you have face-to-face dealings with a merchant who won't accept your card because it does not have a chip - my suggestion, take your business elsewhere, and make this clear to the merchant.

The use of PIN as a method of cardholder verification extends beyond "chip" and I expect most people to be familiar with using a PIN at an ATM. To protect against fraud and the use of lost or stolen cards, PIN can also be required at other unattended locations where cards are accepted.

If you are asked for a PIN in an unattended environment, you will need to enter it. My suggestion is to know the PIN for a major brand credit card (not debit) and use it in these environments.

If you have specific experiences - PM me.

Aidan

Hi kimmie3

I'm not sure what the exact story with Gamestation is, but for the record, from Barclays, the biggest UK acquirer...

http://www.barclaycardbusiness.co.uk...dure_guide.pdf (approx. 8MB)

Section 2.1.5 Part 3.

Barclays expect merchants with an electronic terminal to accept mag-stripe transactions.

Aidan

This is counter to what Visa has told me (the ATM pin is just that--an ATM pin) and my experience in Sweden confirms that my CC ATM PINs were useless for all transactions.

Yes, the policy is there, and since I became aware of the rules I have not had a face-to-face transaction declined (sometimes a little pushing is required, sometimes pressing the right buttons on the CC customer terminal is required). The real problem is that certain unattended automated paystations are out of compliance with the rules. They should easily be able to recognize which cards have chips and which do not; many, though, simply don't.
My biggest problem with chip/pin was automated ticket vending machines for SJ (rail company) in Sweden.

The PIN on the account is the PIN on the account regardless of where the transaction takes place (ATM or point-of-sale).

With the Arlanda Express (not SJ), the machines only read the mag-stripe and there is no PIN required.

For SJ unattended machines, I have not had a problem with either mag-stripe or chip cards. Most of the time I use the SJ machines for ticket collection, having purchased the tickets online - you can get a good price on the Just Now 1st Class tickets. You should also be able to use a manned ticket booth if you're having trouble with your cards and the automated machines.

You've also got PM...

Aidan

I can tell you from personal experiences, that toll booths on French highways when unmanned, ONLY TAKE CHIPPED Cards. All the unmanned gas stations we encountered around Geneva and accross border in France, ONLY take chipped card.

The only solution I can see is for the travellers to take precaution - i.e. make sure your car is filled before a long weekend or a national holiday when you travel in Europe, have some CASH, preferrable in changes, so you can pay tolls this way, etc etc

Again, we are talking about situations where only unmanned machines are available, or it is out of normal business hours.

All the talk about contractual agreements between merchants and Visa / Mastercard Networks, and how the cardholders should report the merchants who dont take their mag cards (or in US, to impose a minimum amount for using cards) are USELESS - Does the enforcement exist? or it is a toothless "warning" being issued? Then it does not help the cardholder on the spot when his card is not usable, or accepted.

No, you shouldn't. But you WOULD BE stranded. How about that? Theory versus Reality.

How about the merchant flat out told you, He DOES NOT WANT your business if you insist to pay by mag card? You are, however, welcome to either pay Cash or chipped card.

I have 2 restaurants in Paris told me that. Luckily on both occasions, I had just enough euros on me to pay for the meals.

Please tell us uninformed, how Visa or Mastercard handle this situation? suspend the merchant's privilege?

Do you realize that, in US, the PIN on the Credit Card is strictly for CASH WITHDRAWAL purpose?

Now onto your home turf, the Scandinavia:

Let me tell you a real story - A friend was travelling in Scandinavia this past Summer - I forgot which country now. He told me at a train station, when he went to buy train ticket, the attendant insisted he to enter a PIN on the device, despite my friend was using a mag card from US issuer, and did not know the PIN on the card. He needed the train ticket, the train ticket booth attendant would not budge but insisted a PIN must be entered. (So much for knowledge, ha?)

So my friend made up a PIN, and the transaction went thru. My friend said, he really does not know how to make of it - Does the PIN system prevent fraud? Or, in this real-life experience, proves USELESS, and actually MAKE IT EASIER to commit Fraud, as the PIN he input was a FAKE NUMBER, yet, the transaction went thru. Moreover, he was not require to sign the sales receipt.

You can enlighten us How could that happen, in the above incident experienced by my friend, in one Scandinavian country? (The guy went to all 3 countries and then from there to Russia.)