Sigh, I am not sure if you want to call this DCC or not, but I just booked a flight on Scoot. It was in USD and when I was charged I realised they they billed in SGD, and Converted to USD. So, I basically paid an extra $25.

Annoys me because generally I can keep an eye on these things and not let this happen, but this one slipped by me.

It looks like Multi Currency Conversion to me

I dummy ticketed a SYD-SIN one-way that would have cost A$379.42 in AUD and entered a HK card for it:

Citibank: <One-Time-Password> Always bank safely, never share the One-Time-Password, your user id and password. You have initiated an online transaction with your credit card ending with 1234 at Scoot Pte Ltd for HKD2152.46. Any doubt call +85228600333. One-Time-Password for this transaction: 123455

It didn’t seek an authorisation in AUD, which would have been what I was expecting.

I wouldn’t know whether it will post in AUD, SGD or HKD, I’m not completing the transaction.

Google translated the A$379.42 as HK$2,011.62, an exact, undisclosed 7.00% markup.

I’ve not expected any better from Scoot https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/othe...l#post25649164

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...cff95d6b7.jpeg


it had the USA dollars in the top right when I was shopping. But unless I missed it somehow, nothing indicating that it would invoice me in SGD, convert, and bill in USD.

(It is possible that they warned me, and I missed it, it could have been in the breakdown screen).

My travels have managed to avoid DCC for a while, but confronted it in several Australian hotels. Selected $A each time of course. Surprised to return home to see several of the transactions billed in $US, with an outrageous (though not Majuki outrageous) of 4-5%.

I think what happened was I selected $A when checking in for the preauthorization. But then when I checked out they ran the card again automatically (i.e. express checkout) and they self-selected DCC.

I've contacted the hotels . . . but expect to dispute.

As a best practice when overseas and using Visa/MC at hotels, I always check out at the front desk in person. You got what was called back office DCC on those transactions.

Always check the receipt, making sure no DCC. Keep a copy of zeroed out bill in

The foreign currency. Bach office may still override and charge in home currency.

see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30054862-post441.html. As an example Response.

Just spent a week in Italy, have not encountered any DCC attempts (credit card use only, no ATM).

The DCC offer at the Aloft in Tainan was 8%. The card terminal wasn't customer facing, but I was able to peer over the front desk to observe what the offer was. (This is a rare case where I was using a card other than an Amex at a Marriott property, but I had a 10% Chase offer on my CSR.)

Stomach lean https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chin...l#post17152376 :p:p:p?

Metro Bank London $97 DCC ATM fee
 

Just arrived in London and went into a Metro Bank to use their ATM to get some cash. Pretty jet-lagged, so it took me a while to process the ATM screen.

I asked for 500 GBP and the ATM offered that amount for $755.06, with “conversion.” The rate they quoted was GBP = 1.510128. They then had two options: “continue without conversion “ or “continue with conversion. “

Luckily, I realized that I should forgo the conversion, and Fidelity notified me that my 500 GBP withdrawal cost $657.95, or $97.11 less than the bank’s DCC rate and nearly exactly the amount a forex app said was the exchange rate.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...66af766af.jpeg

As this site is dedicated to earning points and miles, I'll let my curiosity get the better of me: Why would you want such a large amount of cash? Or indeed any cash? In my last 3 trips to London, I've not spent a penny/cent in cash. Now that you can tap your card at stations instead of buying an Oyster card, credit cards cover pretty much everything. (I think I saw one restaurant a decade ago that didn't accept credit cards.)

While generally speaking I agree with you that in 2024 in the UK, there is little need for cash for day-to-day purchases, there are still valid reasons. For instance, I took out some cash at LHR in December for my parents who had an upcoming trip and felt more comfortable with cash on hand upon arrival. (The Travelex ATM offered a similar, absurd 15% DCC fee.)

While it's not the case for this post, some countries are still cash based, especially for de minimis purchases, such as Germany and Japan.

There could be a cash discount offered for a purchase that exceeds the anticipated value of any credit card rewards.

There could also be spending that isn't possible to charge to a credit card.

Another reason is that some of us have bank accounts in other countries. The easiest and cheapest way for me to get USD to a bank account in local currency is by withdrawing from an ATM at the destination. Since my issuer doesn't charge a fee for third party ATM use and reimburses ATM operator fees, there's no cost to me, assuming I can decline any DCC offers that the ATM presents.

Japan has got a lot better. I was there a couple of months ago, for the first time in over a decade. In Tokyo, every little restaurant I ate at took cards, which amazed me. Total reverse of last time when I needed to use cash all over the place. There are some perverse situations though, like the train ticket machines that accept credit cards for some kinds of tickets and not others. (And tickets to Haneda airport are one of the types which must be paid in cash!)

While this is true, cash or cash equivalents, such as an IC card, can in many cases be more convenient or universally accepted. Since I don't have an iPhone (or Japanese Android phone), I don't have a Suica card in a digital wallet with digital wallet top ups. For that, I top up my physical Suica card with cash from a 7-Eleven ATM, which does have DCC.

In keeping with the topic of this thread, I will also use cash for small transactions in places where forced DCC is ubiquitous. Some countries make it difficult, if not impossible, to opt out of DCC. While I might be inclined to fight a bunch of < US$5 charges with forced DCC on principle, I recognize that a card issuer in the US is more likely to simply issue a credit for a currency transaction dispute rather than pursuing a full chargeback with the merchant. In those cases, the merchant gets away with DCC on the transaction even if I as the customer am made whole.

My mother just went to Austria and got completely hosed on the DCC at the airport of all places(Euronet ATM I'm guessing) at 15% markup and she did it twice! she couldn't read the screen so clicked yes, Schwab had it written explicitly in their conditions that this would not be refunded so that was super painful ($1k Euros). I had only seen videos of these ATMS and not in person after visiting 20 countries (although not eastern europe)

Separately, was in Ireland and the Quinlan fish bar in Killarney and waitstaff insisted the machine would only charge in the currency the card was issued in which I know is not true but I didn't have time to argue with them or make them redo the transaction. I'm pretty sure even if that's the default there is a way to bypass. It's only $5 dollars (3.5%) but it's the principle of the matter and the waitstaff was all snooty about it. Chase doesn't actually have this as an option for a chargeback but VISA does if I recall correctly?
https://durangomerchantservices.com/...ations%20where

It's a little more difficult to dispute an ATM transaction given that these ATMs offer a way to decline DCC (and the cash & balance scam), which I detailed in this post. You can still try to dispute the transactions, but I suspect a company such as Euronet to vigorously contest any disputes.

File a dispute per the normal process with Chase. As I said in my previous post, at ~$5, Chase is unlikely to file a chargeback and simply credit you the money you are out. This further proves my point in cases of known forced DCC that it might be easier to use cash to avoid the situation. The staff were lying, of course, and the fact that you were in a rush didn't help attempt to resolve the issue at the time of the transaction.

As a best practice, I also look for merchants where there are customer facing credit card terminals. In cases where they hand me the terminal, I hold onto it until the receipt prints, showing local currency.

Now you got me worried about my upcoming trip to Czechia and Hungary. I'll try and ask for Apple Pay where I can, so I can as for CZK/HUF charging and watch the servers do it.

My current foreign spending bank has some reasonable dispute resolution. But I hope I don't have to go there.

I go cash free in UK and Canada.
The former has pre-included gratuity and the latter has gratuity selection in terminals.

I almost also did in US, but, I felt I needed to get the reception for keeping my bag after checkout.
(The small denomination USD also proved helpful in Doha for transit tour - helped me give something for the guide)

In Europe I tend to pass gratuities to servers in cash.
(Not consistently, I forgot to do this in Sweden. But in Eurozone countries I carry or withdraw big notes and then ask hotel receptions to do their best to break them).

Good question! Reasons for cash are multiple: (1) Tipping at our luxury hotel , (2) One tour we arranged specifically asked for a cash payment. I dislike both, but I go along to get along. 😀

I did check out in person! Yet they still did the "back office" on me. One of the two hotels is looking into correcting it. The other denies they charged me in dollars, though my credit card statement couldn't be more clear - one shows a charge converted to US$ from the hotel, the other does not.

Such a f'ing waste of time. I wish credit cards would shut this down - the only arguable benefit "people want to know what the charge will be in their home currency" can be achieved just with display without DCC.

I misinterpreted what you had said in the previous post since you had mentioned express checkout.

This is the purported benefit of DCC or to mitigate potential exchange rate risks. However, I've noticed that my Visa cards for the most part have been using the transaction date exchange rate when previously they had been using the posting date exchange rate.

Historically, DCC wasn't as big of a scam as it is today. DCC offers of 3% or so were common, and cards used to charge a currency exchange fee. Ironically, it benefitted one historically to accept DCC at up to 3% since you'd get rewards on the whole transaction amount. As cards switched to foreign transaction fees and more and more cards began to offer 0% FTFs, accepting DCC no longer made sense.

My experience in early days was that even with DCC card issuers that charged their own FTF still charged the FTF because the transaction was "foreign" - i.e., the fee was for the higher risk on foreign transactions and the cost of dispute resolution, not the convenience of converting currency (or so they claimed). So you would pay ~ 3%+3% with DCC, or 3% without. In other words, DCC *never* made sense to me.

Re express checkout - it's unclear to me too sometimes! I've found many hotels have already processed the checkout and charged your card early in the morning, even if you go to the desk to get the receipt and confirm the bill. I'm not sure if that had happened in this instance - I don't think so - but anyway I was clear on DCC and they did otherwise. Still sorting. One has mostly fixed, but I still came out $10 down. Not sure whether worth arguing further.

It was probably 15+ years ago when cards started changing from currency conversion fees to foreign transaction fees, so it's been awhile. It did make sense when a card had a currency conversion fee of 3% and DCC was up to 3% since you'd get the rewards on the full transaction amount in the case of DCC whereas the card issuer would not accrue rewards on the currency conversion fee. Perhaps as a result of DCC becoming more widespread card issuers changed from currency conversion fees to foreign transaction fees. Now with many US cards offering 0% FTFs, DCC makes no sense.

I always make sure to get the credit card terminal receipt to verify that there is no DCC. Another option is to check-in with an Amex for the preauth and then ask to change the card at checkout. That might afford you additional control and the opportunity to opt out.

Physicians in the Philippines want their professional fees in cash, even though hospitals generally accept credit cards (in local or dynamic foreign currency).

I wonder if they are fully reporting their income to the Bureau of Internal Revenue (BIR)? ;)

Mrs. Majuki and I visited a new mall in New Taipei City, and both Uniqlo and one of the restaurants had DCC (with the same terminals). At Uniqlo, the terminal was unfortunately behind the counter, and the employee tapped Mrs. Majuki's card. The cashier did hand the terminal over for the currency selection. At the restaurant, which was pay when exiting, the terminal was customer facing. Furthermore, the signature was electronically captured, so there's no confirmation of the currency selection other than the amount does appear on the signature pad. Perhaps in the case of forced DCC that you could refuse to sign:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...a83038f10a.jpg

Take a photo or video of you ticking the TWD selection...?

There wouldn't be a good way to provide this to the card issuer. As I said, the amount did appear on the signature screen, so if it showed something other than local currency you could refuse to sign.

(I just had to upload photos via live chat for another dispute)

Depends whether there's a back button from the cashier's workflow. If not, you're going to scribble "Did not agree to DCC" and have them accept that.

Ireland ATM DCC Rate
 

Yet another absurd convenience fee of over 13%:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...630ebe2a1.jpeg

I'm wrapping up a 2 week trip to Islay, Glasgow, Edinburgh, and London, happy to report that other than 14.99% offered and declined :) at a TravelEx ATM in GLA airport, no DCC encountered across a bunch of contactless transactions (mostly Chase but a couple Amex)

I wouldn't mind being so lucky!

Hyatt made the correction graciously, but I still came out behind somehow by about $10. They then gave me an additional credit of $40.
The other hotel continued to insist they billed in AUD, and I needed to address with Chase, which I did. I disputed what I calculated to be the difference - about $60. We'll see what happens.

Just back from a week in Slovakia using a USD-denominated Visa card via Apple Pay. Most cafés and restaurants charged EUR without any messing about, but supermarkets (Billa and Tesco chains) and one restaurant made me choose a currency after tapping my phone (F1 or 1 for USD, F4 or 4 for EUR).

At that stage, the POS terminal did not show me any information about the exchange rate, final amount or additional charges I would incur if I chose USD. For obvious reasons, I didn't proceed further to find out.

Peru is my second country (of five) on this South American trip. No DCC to report earlier from Chile. However, today at lunch I tapped Google Wallet at the counter on the way out; DCC appeared, causing the employee to immediately choose local Sol over dollars, before I fully realized what was happening.

Ireland does bring out the terminals but she had me tap it but never let me see the screen like the other places we went all over Ireland. chase did refund me (Unfortunately I misread my receipt and forgot they stated the exact amount they charged me so they only refunded me $2.6 dollars instead of $3.5 euros) but I doubt Chase even bothered with the chargeback.

I didn't try with the Euronet because the Charles Schwab conditions explicitly state that they do not refund fees related to dynamic currency conversion and only if the fee was taken out in host currency. That was quite a bit of money and I could have tried but I doubt it would have worked as you did have to click yes.

Chase just issued a courtesy credit. In the case of a chargeback, the transaction would have been reprocessed in local currency at the exchange rate backdated to the date of the transaction.

As a best practice, I always view the terminal and assume the staff have bad intentions if they are holding onto the terminal or concealing the screen from view. In a recent example, the waiter was a bit taken aback when I insisted on holding the terminal after tapping my card until the transaction processed completely. :)

Below is my first DCC instance spotted in Germany at the Deutsches Museum. I tried to tap the payment, which failed. There were no prompts on the terminal and no signature slip, but notice that the amount default amount was in USD (at a 4.75% markup over the pending transaction amount on my card). The failed contactless transaction did not show up as a pending transaction on my card. When I inserted my card, the DCC prompts appeared on screen, and the cashier helped me select EUR without issue. A signature slip printed for the second transaction.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...b1d0774e49.jpg

The above is the only transaction with DCC I've seen so far, but I predict that my hotel might also have DCC when I checkout in an hour. (The preauth was in EUR.)

A dishonorable mention is something I overheard at breakfast yesterday morning. Someone was sitting at the table next to mine and had just sat down. He had used a Euronet ATM at a shopping mall and asked the others at the table, "There was something about a 13.95% fee? I didn't know what to do or how to avoid it. The receipt shows this fee." I considered mentioning that he likely had just gotten ripped off in multiple ways: cash & balance fee, DCC spread, Euronet's ATM fee, his bank's ATM fee for using another financial institution's ATM, and perhaps a foreign transaction fee. If he had taken out €100, it's possible he could have had up to 25% in fees if all of the above were paid.

For EUR we in HKG now have the ability to withdraw EUR banknotes from our local bank ATMs before departure. We can even deposit and withdraw from our foreign currency accounts (deposit needs to be at manned counter, of course).

I’m wondering should I change CZK and HUF from EUR when I get there, or attempt local Cirrus withdrawal and brave the obligatory DCC offers.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...8140a098e.jpeg

I'd withdraw cash locally.

I tapped all my transactions in NZ last week. I received one DCC offer from a restaurant which was easily declined.

I should know, but might as well ask here to be safe. Traveling to Italy soon, is using American Express still a reliable way to avoid DCC or has something changed? Mexico and South America latest trips I was able to avoid. I usually try with AmEx, then Chase Visa if AmEx not accepted. And any recs of best ATMs to look for in Italy to avoid (or make obvious how to avoid)? Thanks.

Yes. Only Visa and Mastercard networks support DCC. Other networks, such as American Express, Discover, JCB, and UnionPay do not.

I usually go to branded bank ATMs. This isn't specific to Italy but rather anywhere. I'd avoid Euronet ATMs that have high fees and always try to DCC. You can see how to opt out of the fees and DCC if you read my post from about a month ago, but it's better to go to a bank's ATM to avoid this entirely.

If you are a Bank of America customer, you will not be assessed ATM access fees at Banca Nazionale del Lavoro, which is owned by BNP Paribas, as all are members of the Global ATM Alliance.