update. CIBC and TD bank ATM offers DCC.

I am in London. I overheard the receptionist talking to a guest checking in, directing him to select GBP unless he had a preference since "the rate is much better". I'm glad to see staff are now guiding customers to declining DCC. While most of my transactions were contactless, I personally didn't see a single instance of DCC this trip.

I bought an airline ticket last night on Volaris (a Mexican LCC) and the payment page offered a selection of Pesos or USD. The page said "our rate is better than your credit card" under the USD price. A quick conversion showed that the peso price was about $4 less, a decent bit, considering the ticket was about $50.

Interesting.

How did you get the conversion rate? I recall DCC in Hong Kong airport, but only remember choice of currency, not a rate. How did you determine the rate, or did you figure it out from prices quoted (since you presumable were online and had time to do this).

Mrs Majuki and I were in London last week, and I noticed the app defaulted to DCC. I used an Amex, so I wonder what it would have done if I had left alternate currency checked.

For all other transactions I used contactless, so I didn't see any DCC personally. I did see a customer in front of me at the duty free shop at St Pancras receive a DCC prompt on a euro denominated card (and the customer declined), but that was it.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...bc3fd16d80.jpg

Dumb question, but contactless is the only guaranteed way to avoid DCC? If so, I have to start tapping more. For whatever reason, I'm used to inserting my card.

Me too. That's news to me.

In Poland this past summer I received many DCC prompts on tapping, whether it was a physical card or Google Pay. So, that is not even a guarantee. I think it depends on how the terminals are set up.

Was there an amount threshold? I do think it's how the terminals are setup, but I have seen many instances where a card insertion results in a DCC prompt whereas a tap bypasses it. The duty free shop at St Pancras was one of the examples.

It seems tapping for amount lower than 50€ makes the system just process the charge and move on. Anything larger triggers the authorization process which includes pin or signatire capture and of course the dreaded DCC dialogue.

All of my transactions were under this amount, so it's unsurprising I didn't see any DCC prompts.

It depends. When I was there in 2019, I never got DCC on taps below 50 PLN which was the contactless limit for no PIN. I have seen exactly what you describe - tapping below 50 PLN and get nothing, insert and be hit with DCC prompt every time. However, this year when I went, on newer terminals, I got it every time on tapping as well. On older terminals, still nothing until I go over the threshold. So, depends totally on the terminal.

Case in point, this is what I got with a tap at one of the terminals:


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...7be6d21aba.jpg

In this example does the terminal have a touchscreen, or which button does one press for PLN?

I **think** I pressed the first - on the left as I do not think this is a touchscreen. I may be wrong, as that is from July, but i think I just figured I'll press the button most to the left as that is where PLN is. Not very intuitive, to be honest.

It's like some of the terminals where you have to press the yellow button at the bottom. The red button will cancel the transaction.

Other than the one merchant processor that doesn't support it, I get DCC prompts every time whether contactless or chip and regardless of the amount when using American cards in the Dominican Republic. Same goes for Apple or Google Pay.

Either way prompts for DCC and then spits out a slip with no signature required for amounts under 10,000 DOP (about 180 USD). Over that, you have to sign the slip but still no difference whether chip or contactless.

95% of the time when the terminal is cashier-facing, they pick DOP without even asking so at least I've got that going for me.

Ok , so thats why since few weeks/months i receive the mail from my bank after each transaction in different currency than my card to inform me that transaction was processed with a rate XXX% higher than the ECB

But still it is not clear enough , in the case of amex (they dont do DCC) the mail i receive doesnt show what is their conversion rate + fees , it only gives the difference as percentage , i can see rate + fees only in the monthly statement

It is a progress , however not implemented by all banks + CC issuers at same time and the wording is not clear enough about who to blame for that

I guess until the situation will be solved (most probably by a big technological change or by a new disruptive game player) and allow customers to choose who will process their payments i guess it wont change much

To give you an idea , when i was living in turkey , it was (and probably is still) really common for businesses to have multiple card terminals , one from each main bank , this allowed customers to pay directly from their banks and avoid cross-network fees.

I also heard stories from friends who've been asked to change bank in order to receive their salary , as employer wouldnt pay fees if employees have accounts in the same bank

The lack of financial education (and sometimes other options) means people are like perfect sheeps for banks and CC issuers

At least most are honest , go to any marriott located in country where regulations are non-existant or very weak and you will see this percentage falling from 95% close to 0%

I've been rather amazed at where DCC has been popping up in the US -- it's showing up even at places where encountering a Canadian or Mexican bank card is very rare. It seems like the level of business ethics -- even when dealing with major brands, brands with their own reputational concerns -- keeps slipping closer and closer to the level of ethics of legendary snake-oil salesmen. And foreign bank card-using visitors are prime marks for this kind of sleazy stuff since their proximity to the snake oil-sellers is more fleeting on average than it is with regard to local bank card users.

The US Treasury, the US Federal Reserve Bank and even some other parts of the US Government could put a stop to this kind of fleecing activity in the US, but the financial services industry lobby is strong and has allies in other sectors of the economy that are more than capable of frustrating any efforts to try to regulate away this sleazy DCC stuff across the country.

Why would they care , cause foreigners dont vote for US senate, they just come , pay and leave

When i realised how much money i was wasting in the process , it's not hard to understand why this system is broken

In my case i decided to skip having a regular single currency card from my local bank and opted for multi currency cards from fintech companies when travelling abroad

As USD is very popular is not hard to find a provider which offer cards with USD or others as currencies available with your card ..... So , i can exchange money at rates similar/close to mastercard/visa interchange rates for low cost into lets say GBP or MXN and then use it when in the London or Mexico City

In very rare cases terminals might recognize that my card is foreign and try to charge me another currency but since i use only the local one if available it will be declined, and i can quickly spot when merchant is cheating on me

It is not just a lobby anymore , but rather a oligopoly (in case of CC) or mafia/cartel in general like the 5 big NYC families (banks , CC issuers, payment networks, payment terminals providers, etc...) as all benefit from that and have zero interests to stop it

In poland , banks only started to move their @$$ and offer similar services (multi currencies card) when they realised that people had possibility to choose and were massively leaving the matrix.

The important thing IMO is whether one can still easily opt out (or at least easily reverse and rerun the transaction if someone attempts to force DCC anyway). While there haven't really been any reports here that that's a problem, it's still a bit of a concern for me given the relative infrequency of customer-facing terminals here vs. elsewhere (especially in the hospitality and service industries).

Perhaps GUWonder could give some examples, but I've only seen DCC in a retail setting in the US with customer facing terminals. In the hospitality and service industries, I think the bias toward good customer service would prevail in the case of DCC, especially if a potential gratuity was on the line.

Fellow FlyerTalk member klashn is in Cairo right now, and he saw a DCC offer at an ATM for 1 USD = 14.64 at a 7% markup.

I purchased a ticket on Volaris, and I noticed a section under the fees titled Multiple Currency Exchange Service and Multiple Currency Exchange Service Tax. On a $106.43 ticket this was $5.32 (5%) plus an $0.85 tax for a total of $112.60. Changing the currency at the top of the screen to MXN resulted in a total ticket price of MX$2188 or ~US$106.

Upon entering my payment card information (Visa) the website once again asked if I wanted to pay in USD for $112.60. The MXN option indicated that it does not include the exchange rate fee. The USD option said I could save up to 4%. I don't know if I follow that math since paying in USD was about 6% more expensive. :D

I'm in Cancun, and I noticed an incredibly steep DCC offer from an ATM of around 7%. This was on top of the 10% - don't know if fixed - commission. I'll get the ATM operator fees reimbursed, but I think this is the highest I've seen.

I barely see any need for cash in places like Mexico or Brazil. The majority of vendors take cards to begin with.

In my experience, as recently as 2018 or so cash only places were still pretty common in CDMX. I will admit that it's probably gotten way better since then, though, thanks to the pandemic and other factors.

That would bring it back to DCC. There was a portion of the entry fee to Chichen Itza that had to be paid in cash today, and most of the souvenir vendors didn't take cards (although a some do).

I stayed at the Canopy in Cancun and checked out on Monday morning. I had made the reservation in USD - and I confirmed even booking from the Mexican site would result in USD pricing as well - so I was curious how the hotel would handle this. I use an Amex for Hilton stays, so there is no danger of DCC. The reception took a preauth of 1,000 USD. Prices at the hotel restaurant and bar were denominated in MXN. Upon checkout, I was presented a bill with all charges presented in MXN, but the credit card slip was in USD. The curious thing was that the exchange rate was 22 MXN = 1 USD, which is more favorable that the current rate by 4-5%. I confirmed that the room charge & taxes matched the price at the time of booking in USD at a 22-to-1 exchange rate. I wonder who set that rate, and, if one presented a MXN denominated card would the preauth and final charge be in pesos? I did see a label on the terminal that said USD/MXN.

While this isn't quite an example of DCC, it is a currency conversion process that I hadn't seen before. The closest recent example I could remember is Aruba, but even that isn't an exact analog. The hotels there denominate everything, including the bill, in USD, so I imagine one would never see the AWG price unless paying in AWG.

I've seen this at other resorts in Mexico where their internal exchange rate was favorable. It just really means they overprice all their MXN listed items.

Though that is increasingly true, having some cash in developing countries is important. It is by no means like Europe or the US. Small shops often don't take cards.

This practice is just downright fraudulent.

They get away with it because most Americans don't pay attention to exchange rates and think that it's convenient to see everything in USD. Sad but there is a general lack of education in this regard in the US.

I have had major arguments with hotels in Mexico (and elsewhere) that engage in this practice of quoting in USD, converting to local currency at an inflated rate and then converting back to USD again at an unfavorable rate to THEN try to charge with DCC. It's abominable.

What I tell them each time is: "It's fine to quote your hotel price in USD. You want to quote in a stable currency to minimize your risk. Fine. But here I am, checking out... let's look at the original price quoted. Convert it to your currency today. That's what I will pay you. Nothing more and nothing less."

The front desk folks sometimes don't understand the gaming their accounting offices do but eventually a manager emerges from the back and I pay what is due.

Or Bintan in Indonesia (off Singapore) https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...l#post31458443

I was a bit surprised because I got some food and drinks from the rooftop bar, and that charge was in MXN. With the favorable rate it cost me less than if I had done a separate credit card charge (unless the restaurant also used the same rate). It's a loss for those using MXN denominated credit cards, however.

Yes, I've seen the double conversion too. In this particular case the reservation was denominated in USD, the credit card preauth was USD, and the final credit card slip was in USD at a rate that matched the total in USD at the time of booking. Based on this experience, my guess is that anyone with a USD card would get billed in USD. I imagine this hotel has DCC on its terminal as well, but I would be curious to see if the conversion would be based off of USD or MXN. My guess there would be USD, but I'd need a non-MXN and non-USD card to test. We only have one non-USD card in the house, but Mrs. Majuki doesn't like me using it to test various merchants for DCC in the US. It's also a Visa debit card, so I'm not about to be paying a hotel bill with it. :D

If using a credit card in Bintan, however, wouldn't the charge be in IDR? I know they quote in USD and then apply their own, unfavorable exchange rate from USD to IDR. Have you see reports of DCC on top of that?

It’s not just USD denominated cards. This happens with EUR and other issues cards- it is still often billed in USD

Thank you for this excellent advice!

:tu: :idea: :cool:

Menus in SGD, bill in INR, at the rate in the reception (remember to take a photo before you sit down and order).

Sure. It's like Aruba. (I'm not using the Maldives as an example because to my knowledge there's no way to pay in MVR at the resorts. In Aruba you could always present a local card or cash in AWG.) However, in the case of Aruba hotel bills are presented in USD. Any DCC would be top of the USD amount. In this case the quoted price at booking and the price at checkout (which matched the price at booking) were both USD. The folio I was given for review at checkout was MXN. I have two questions:

1) If the booking price and credit card transactions are natively in USD, why provide the hotel bill in MXN instead of USD?

2) Would any DCC, if present, be on top of the USD price, not the MXN price? That is to say if someone presents a EUR, GBP, or CAD card and the transaction had DCC would the conversion happen off of a USD price?

I know DCC in Indonesia used to be non-existent, but I wonder if eventually they wouldn't try to DCC on top of that.

As a follow up to my own post, my card issuer refunded $8.44 on an $81.16 posted transaction amount. Accepting the DCC offer on top of that would have approached a 20% loss on the transaction.

In most countries the charges eventually must be logged in local currency for tax and accounting purposes.

So if a hotel in Mexico takes $1000USD its bank will convert it into MXN at whatever the rate is that day.

But here is where they are dishonest in my view. Often the amount you see on the final bill in MXN is converted at an inflated rate and then, to make matters worse, they have the audacity to then ask you if you want to pay in USD (yet another exchange... and possible DCC). So yes, you could end up with an inflated bill in MXN and then, on top of that, charged for the convenience of being billed in USD.

It's really fraudulent.

What I recommend people doing is looking carefully at the bill and paying close attention to the conversion rate that is being applied. If the hotel wants to set its rates in USD- fine. When it comes time to check out I pay the official rate- more or less (I am not going to argue about a delta of 1%). But I refuse to pay the hotel for their internal exchange rate which can be often upwards of 10%.

That is total highway robbery. Glad you got your issuer to refund it!

In the Dominican Republic in early February 2021, the RIU booking quoted me US$504. I arrived to sign some paper receipt large amount of DOP, and the transaction eventually posted as US$504.69. Nothing fishy there. DCC was not offered. I guess it would be stupid to present a USD amount that was obviously much higher than a reservation booking. (RIU is a Spanish company.)

I agree. I review the exchange rates in advance of international trips to gauge prices. In this case I didn't have a complaint since the price I paid in USD was the quoted price at booking in USD and my ~$30 in incidental food and beverage also used the hotel's reference exchange rate that was more generous than the official rate.

I do look out for what you're describing, however, where hotels will use a reference rate in some familiar currency, such as USD or EUR, but will convert at their own, unfavorable exchange rate to the local currency for the official bill and sometimes try to DCC on top of that.

Yes, I'd recommend everyone have a debit card that reimburses ATM operator fees while traveling. While DCC should be universally avoidable as long as ATM operators are following the rules, some ATM operators charge almost usurious rates for using their machines. There's also the practice of adding a fee only if one declines DCC, as demonstrated in .