The waiter would ask if I want to pay Polish or (the other currency), or tell me to press a button on the terminal.

What percentage of implementations are fully compliant with this? I've had terminals pop up something as terse as "35.37 USD OK?".

Banks provide a safe place to store your money and also help provide a safe way to transact with it (e.g. by providing credit and debit cards). DCC, on the other hand, is only good for shoveling money into the pockets of merchants and the processors that support it.

I find this thread useful in helping fellow travelers to avoid the pitfalls of DCC or deceptive practices (if they still occur). If it loses focus or devolves into grandstanding, it would be a loss for all who reads it. When we travel we should also not lecture the locals how to run their businesses. There's nothing wrong for them to make money, especially when it doesn't affect us or we engage with them voluntarily.

I just saw DCC for a transaction in front of me at Harrods at LHR. The rate was £52.95 @ 1.1777 USD/GBP and quoted on the register as $62.37. I couldn't see whether the card was a Visa or Mastercard, so I don't know the exchange rate that would have been used. However, the markup would be close to 4% using the current exchange rate. The cashier didn't mention anything, so my guess is that the prompt appeared on the credit card terminal.

I paid with a Visa and used contactless. This avoided DCC automatically for my £35 purchase.

I had only a couple of transactions (taxi and gift shop) recently in Netherlands and France, with no DCC encountered.

Apparently you have no choice but to opt into DCC if you want to use your PayPal balance. For example, while the option to use your balance does appear if you opt to be charged in USD:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...77a6d59162.jpg

it does not appear if you opt out of DCC:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...bfe293a16c.jpg

Probably not a new thing they're doing but figured I'd let people know.

(€129.95 is $127.03 at current exchange rates per Google, so PayPal's conversion would result in paying $133.64 - 127.03 = $6.61 extra, not taking into account the existing PayPal balance.)

While the exchange rates there are unfavorable, I imagine there's not a graceful way to do the transaction split between the PayPal balance and a card across currencies.

I'm surprised they didn't do something where they "helpfully" convert a USD balance to a EUR one (using the same poor exchange rate that DCC uses, of course).

Anyway, I don't mind transferring the balance to my bank account first. I'd probably end up with more UR points doing that, too, since the charge would be on the full amount rather than the remaining USD balance.

9% at BCN airport ATM :D

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...392f5a7ee7.jpg

I’ve only seen this method used once before at St Regis Saadiyat Island hotel in Abu Dhabi.

This time the naughty vendor was La Caserne Chanzy Hotel, (Marriott Autograph), Reims, France.

The final bill was presented in €. Mastercard inserted into card reader and € amount shown. PIN was requested and entered. No choice of currency was offered.

I then gave back the card reader. Then, after PIN entry for the € amount, DCC was offered in GBP (my card currency). Only because the front desk agent was honest and asked me, I could retrieve the reader and choose €.

I thought Mastercard rules prohibited post transaction DCC.

Contactless swiping avoided DCC everywhere else in Reims I went to.

If you do the calculation it's more like a 16.7% markup versus the true exchange rate.

I don't know about Mastercard's rules in this instance, but as a best practice when entering a PIN I would retain the card reader until the receipt started to print.

As much as I like PIN preferring cards, this is one instance where chip-and-signature wins since it's always possible to refuse to sign and have the merchant void the transaction or deface the receipt and take a photo for a chargeback.

Fair enough, though even US ATMs charge ridiculous fees, and I have Chase Sapphire checking anyway:p

I misread the screen. The ATM fee itself is €7. I've seen videos of some ATMs offering a lower fee or waiving it entirely for accepting DCC, which is against card network rules.

It was over 11% at Scotiabank in Cusco, Peru, earlier this month. I should have taken a photo.

For 1234.80 MXN today at an ATM I was quoted $68.31. I declined, and the pending charge is $63.99.

Just back from Marrakech and one restaurant charged in in USD and did the conversion scam. I told them I wanted to pay in local, but the receipt came back converted. I told the waiter. Manager. Owner. All refused to switch the transaction. The owner insisted that he always charges customers in their home currency and that everyone wins, he is doing us all a favor by making things easier. I told each of them they were full of it. The "discussion" escalated, my wife told (tipsy) me to stop being foolish by arguing with them and just leave (smart advice), which we did.

I'll dispute the transaction (this isn't abut a few dollars on a $200 tab, it is principle and fraud -- and apparently a very popular restaurant that does this as a matter of course. No clue what Visa or Chase Sapphire Reserve will do (experience welcomed).

Question: I noticed on this last trip that being able to tap meant over 90% of businesses never asked me for a signature even though I have an American card that is not chip+PIN. In this case he tapped my card out of my vision and handed me a receipt. I never signed anything. Is this officially allowed now for certain transactions or did vendors just do it out of convenience and pattern of dealing with non-American cards? Does my lack of signature help my dispute claim?

As an aside, man, the ATMs in Portugal were quite confusing. We fell for the scam on our first need for quick cash but then (thanks to FT!) started rejecting the conversions, but the phrasing makes it sound like you are cancelling the entire withdrawal vs just the DCC (even at the post office ATMs)... never seen anything like it.

IME banks consistently see DCC as NOT a matter of principle. In the few times when I complained, the banks always just credited me the claimed overcharge without opening a dispute.
I also learned an interesting factoid during a recent trip to Chile, where DCC was pervasive. Most payment terminals were programmed to only work one way, Vendors would even let me do the input, and the option without the DCC would simply get declined. Eventually I resigned myself to this "involuntary tip" of about a $1 USD. At their low prices, it was still a great deal to shop there.

There isn't a specific DCC chargeback with Chase, but click on the ">" next to the transaction after it posts. Then scroll down and click "Report a problem >". There's an option that says, "I was charged a higher amount than expected." I think that would be the most appropriate among the available options. You can look at the posted transaction date and consult with Visa here. Enter your transaction date, 0% for the bank fee, the amount in MAD, and USD for your card's currency. This is the rate that you should have paid absent DCC.

In the comments you can state something like, "On November xx, 2022 I had a transaction with this merchant in the amount of xx MAD. The merchant refused me the option of processing the transaction in local currency, and I was involuntary charged in USD. I want to pursue a Reason Code 12.3 chargeback to be billed in local currency for this transaction."

While unfortunately with a non-signature transaction it's not possible to deface the merchant receipt before handing it back (and taking a photo for proof on your side), under the Visa network rules the way the transaction was processed should make no difference in your recourse.

Many implementations at both ATMs and retail locations are like this. They make it seems like you are canceling the transaction or going back to correct something. For instance, a common implementation has a button on the left that says "< DECLINE CONVERSION" and on the right that says "ACCEPT CONVERSION >". The < arrow makes it seem like you're going back or correcting something, and the > arrow seems like the intuitive route. This is despite Visa and MC network rules clearly stating that setups like this that either corral or confuse customers into accepting DCC are not allowed. (Of course, this isn't enforced.)

I agree with your wife if the merchant is being intransigent that it's best to try to fix this on the back end with your card issuer. I'm hoping Chase chooses to do the chargeback rather than just issuing a courtesy credit. If you feel comfortable sharing, what was the transaction amount in MAD and the amount with DCC in USD?

Please keep us posted.

Were these signature transactions? While banks might just see this as an inconvenience or customer service issue, I'd dispute every single one of these out of principle on my side. I'd also complain to Visa by reporting a problem with a merchant. It would help if you could figure out the payment processor as well to provide that information. Nothing might come out of it, but I did have a successful case about 7 years ago when the Wing Stop near work required ID for credit card purchases due to the "manager's policy". Of course, I tested this, refused to show ID for a properly signed card, and the merchant wouldn't let me proceed with the transaction by card. I reported this to Visa. I went back within a month, and the signs had been removed. Coincidence? Perhaps, but if so the timing was awfully coincidental.

Thanks, everyone, this is very helpful. I will wait to take in the advice before filing my dispute. Since you asked,...

• the transaction was on 11/11,
• labeled "carte etrangere" (foreign card?)
• local amount: 1950,00 MAD
• 1 USD - 10.3755 MAD
• Mark-up inclus = 3.50%
• Transaction amount: 187,94 USD

I don't know how to tell the processor for sure, but at the top it says CMI (I can provide an image or numbers listed if that helps). Very interestingly, it says "I accept the above conditions" and the "yes" is marked, but I never clicked the green yes button or signed anything. The fine print here also says I accept that I have been given a preferred choice of currency and this choice is final. But I wasn't... It also says "DEBIT" at the bottom.

Again, what struck me is that when I argued about it they said they charge all customers in home currency as a benefit. I assume folks with chip and PIN might have an easier time catching things but mine was just tapped I believe and then I was handed a receipt showing the wrong currency without clicking a button. Thanks.

Contactless has been a thing almost everywhere outside the US for years before we got around to using it so I'm not surprised places are tapping your card for you. Most places still do it in front of you, though, if they don't have you do it.

Totally, and I loved it this trip -- not having to bother with a signature made my life a lot easier. In every case I was allowed/asked to tap myself. In one case, it demanded use of the mag strip (and a sig). In 2-3 other cases, the merchant asked me to hold for a sec to sign a copy.

You use the chip the same way, whether you insert the card or tap. The only difference is the method of connection. If your card should ever become unglued and you can separate the two halves, you get a better idea how the connection works. There are 2 sets of wires coming from the chip -- one leads to the metal pads used when you insert, and the other is the RFID antenna used when you tap.

For US cards that's true but contactless actually avoids PIN for most transactions with most non-US cards. The former is probably at least part of why it was a much harder sell for Americans until recently (and possibly why the US may never see as much usage as elsewhere).

For 11/11, the Visa rate for 1950.00 MAD was 178.52 USD. In reality, this was 5.28% higher than Visa's rate for that transaction. The only benefit is to the merchant in getting a percentage of the rip off.

Does the bottom of your receipt say signature not required (or the equivalent in French)? If so, you could add that the merchant had control of your card and the credit card terminal for the duration of the transaction and refused to void this transaction to reprocess in local currency.

Thanks. I will check, but I don't think it said that. It did have a "yes" and "no" check box area where it said I agreed to the currency conversion and all terms... checked yes, although I never touched a green/yes button on the card machine. So, I'm guessing the waiters just do it for people and collect the extra cash. I'll file my dispute tonight! Thanks

Keep us updated!

THANK YOU all. Due to character limits I entered "Merchant refused option to process local currency. Involuntary charged in USD. I want to pursue a Reason Code 12.3 chargeback to be billed in local currency. Visa rate on 11/11 1950.00 MAD=178.52 USD". Next screen asked me to specify issue so I selected "charged more then expected" and entered the amount you kindly provided. Chase robot automatically credited me $9.42 USD, now let's see what happens.

Question, for the overcharge does the merchant get the extra funds in local currency or did he just scam hard currency dollars to boot? 3%-5% on every check must add up -- it was all foreign tourists ordering drinks. :-)

So I guess the takeaway here is to insist on physical control of the device before presenting your card?

Yup. In every other instance on our trip I was presented with the machine and tapped, then clicked currency I wanted (if asked; most times it just defaulted to local when I tapped, but I was able to see what was happening). Other places made me select an approve button or whatever myself. Lesson is to not hand over my card. (As an aside, at my local there were some Lithuanians trying to pay who were aghast at the idea of handing over their card to the bartender to walk away to the register, I had to explain how it works in the USA and agreed it is weird).

The transaction itself wouldn't change and still present to the merchant in MAD. Where the merchant sees a benefit is that the payment processor would give the merchant some of the cut of the DCC fee (in the merchant's currency).

Not common at all outside of Europe, where banks are exceptionally sensitive to fraud losses.

The US consumer is very well insulated against card fraud so banks have been less motivated to spend on extra security measures.

This seems backwards. If the banks cannot often pass through the cost of fraud to consumers, why would they not be motivated to implement procedures to reduce it?

In most regions where Visa and Mastercard operate, they've already mandated terminal and card support for contactless or are in the process of doing so. The US is definitely the outlier in terms of usage and overall merchant acceptance. Hell, we've technically had contactless since 2014 if you were willing to tap a phone but it got almost no use until the pandemic despite gradually increasing merchant acceptance.

If anything, waiving PIN for smaller transactions (by letting people tap instead of insert) might reduce fraud by making the physical card harder to use for larger purchases if it were indeed stolen.

If the US is an "outlier" then so is Japan, South Korea, Thailand, the vast majority of Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Africa, South and Central America. Again, this was rolled out early in Europe because the banks there are supremely sensitive to fraud and often make it difficult to contest a charge.

US banks typically immediately credit consumers while they conduct investigations for claims of debit or credit fraud. European Banks, in my experience, do not give the consumer the same benefit of the doubt, often tying up funds until months later after they've done their utmost to disprove the claim.

With US consumers so well protected, not pressuring the banks, the cost of rapidly converting 1.4+ billion cards and tens of millions of terminals simply wasn't worth it vs the cost of fraud until recent years, as the technology became much cheaper.

No one I know is the US has lost money to credit or debit card fraud in decades. Yes, they've gotten bogus charges, but it's always quickly resolved.

Chip and PIN/signature and contactless are vastly different things. Not to mention that back in 2014-2015 the US pretty much had no choice but to adopt chip like much of the rest of the world had done (10+ years beforehand in some cases, mind you), if for no other reason than to avoid compatibility issues when we go overseas. At least this time we're not waiting until stores in Europe and elsewhere are no longer able to insert cards before trying to get used to the idea of tapping cards and devices.

(BTW, in 60+ countries, contactless usage was already >= 50% of face-to-face transactions back in 2020-21. NYC only recently broke the 20% mark as of the time that infographic was made; every other in-person transaction was still insert or swipe. Those numbers are likely higher by now but the US is probably still going to have relatively lower acceptance/usage for a while.)

Bringing it back to the main topic of this thread: it sucks that contactless no longer avoids DCC. At least there's still AmEx (wherever it's accepted, that is).

I was charged DCC by a hotel in India I chose no and signed and ticked the local currency. But when I got the charge it was charged in USD at a lousy rate. The card was a commercial card of my employer and through US Bank. I contested the charge and they declined to cancel and be recharged in local currency. They said no signature is needed so if you gave the card the transaction happened. Another time, I was swindled by a gas station near Cancun Airport. I filled my gas and then gave my credit card and then he said not working, give another one, I chose to pay in cash. What he had done behind my back is to make a transaction. When I contested it, Capital one gave me a credit. Then the gas station sent a fraudulent purchase and capital one accepted and I was charged. Later I came to know the gas stations close to rental car return do this type of fraud regularly. It is thus best to pay in local currency. Lesson learnt.

US Bank claimed the transaction happened or the hotel? Sometimes it's difficult to get the card issuer to take up the dispute with the merchant. Often for DCC the issuer will simply credit your account if the amount is small. If a US card issuer is being intransigent I wouldn't hesitate to file a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau complaint to force the card issuer to take up the chargeback.

The second situation is simply a merchant not providing goods or services for which you were charged. This is typically easier to resolve in your favor.

Time to switch banks. I have never had Chase or Citi deny such disputes.