I understand it wasn't the delivery guy's fault, but I was saying that in tipped situations the waitstaff or delivery people would have more of an incentive to figure out how to make the system opt out.

Good point.

It does happen sometimes the person using the terminal will hit USD as opposed to zloty but in this case, the screen appears for literally a split second before you can even hit the red button to zloty.

The chargeback amount will be a dollar but it's the principal. No company should be forcing a poor conversion like this and stating the user has the choice.

Looks like (based on the receipt), it's done by these guys:
https://www.eservice.pl/en/products-...onversion-dcc/

Here's a news article (in Polish) about forced Dcc from EService in Poland: https://subiektywnieofinansach.pl/zn...-dcc-terminal/
Videos of EService and their scam in action: ,
Absolute scum. I wonder how this can even be legal.

DCC offered at Hong Kong ATM
 

Just got back from about 50 days in Europe this summer. In Ireland, ran into DCC at most tourist shops (Woolen Mills, etc) but always offered the clear choice to pick local currency. Same at the Royal Delft factory in the Netherlands for a large purchase as well as Fragonard in France. Only place I have experienced "sneaky" DCC was with Europcar in Scotland. Disputed that with the manager via email and got a credit without having to dispute it.

I used Apple Pay for most of my charges and the only CC problems I ran into was trying to pay a 50EUR parking fee in Brugge Belgium and buy gas in the Netherlands at automated stations that I could not because none of my cards (CSR, Cap1 GM Card) offered chip and pin.

As I understand it, unattended gas stations in Europe sometimes don't accept cards from other European countries as well? Surprised the parking fee didn't go through without a signature as Approved though.

I don't recall DCC in Ireland two years ago using my phone almost exclusively.

It was an automated kiosk so it rejected both my cards as soon as I put them in. Interestingly my friends Amex Delta Platinum worked.

Ireland was the origin of DCC.

I just never ran across Irish DCC, nor I believe did my companion, was my point. She did, however, have to produce ID for one shop in Cork before being allowed to sign the slip!

In many cases contactless/mobile payments can avoid DCC prompts from showing. There are situations where that isn't the case, such as the recent examples in Poland.

I saw a sign in Vancouver on Granville Island at one of the shops saying all signature transactions would need ID. I always report such merchants to the payment networks and inform the merchant when requested that ID checks do nothing to change merchant liability.

Hmm, could I have been better off choosing USD instead of EUR at Airbnb just now? Note the screenshots below:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...d08977aa5b.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...edf1fd3bc2.png

According to xe.com, €67.74 converts to $76.12 (vs. $75.17 by letting Airbnb do it)--a 1.2% or so difference.

I thought Airbnb did multi currency conversion based on location/payment card?

Yep, it defaulted to USD when I was on there. In the past they apparently did force DCC from what I've read but it doesn't look like they do now.

From what I remember Airbnb would display prices in USD and not even show the local currency price, which was MCC. There are fewer options for recourse with MCC because it's not something that goes through the acquirer and the conversion is obfuscated.

Yep. 1%ish difference isn't as bad as it could have been in any case.

No, it's not. Also, not all instances of MCC are bad. While DCC is pure profit for the acquirer (and whatever cut the merchant gets), some versions of MCC won't have much, if any, of a spread on the amount. However, most of the implementations of MCC that I've seen have around a 3% spread.

Indeed this trick used to work a few years ago to opt out of DCC. This is no longer the case with AVIS / BUDGET. My last 2 overseas experiences with that gang were infuriating.
For a rental in Turkey, I specifically ran a quote in TRY. However, Avis would not save the quote in TRY or send a confirmation in TRY, but apply a mandatory conversion to EUR. When I called a phone agent and asked for a confirmation in TRY (arguing that it's the currency that will be used in Turkey), the agent flatly refused. Avis would not provide a quote that could be honored by the rental outlet, and my only recourse would be to cancel it.
Indeed when I arrived to pick up my car at the airport, the local agent promptly added the same DCC margin as the airport FX outlet (>10%).

In another recent experience with Budget in Belarus, the quote could not even be generated in BYN, only in EUR. When the agent arrived with the car, they added so many "mandatory" charges, including the DCC, that the rate practically doubled. The hidden DCC was the last straw for me, and I canceled that reservation. I next tried SIXT -- that experience was pure joy in contrast. I was charged exactly the contracted rate and got a brand new car to boot. It was substantially less expensive than the scam rate that Budget tried to pull off.

Turkey has a history of quoting and charging in EUR/USD instead of TRL. This is not DCC, but a policy to shield against currency fluctuations.

Similar to Vietnam and Bintan but "DCC margin" will not be added.

The local contracted rental agency does not need to exchange currency. In fact they are prohibited to deal in any currency other than their legal tender. The shenanigans strictly comes from Avis and involves DCC, i.e. adding an undisclosed fee to the quoted rate.

I was not DCCed for a car with Avis in Canada. Despite the terms saying otherwise, I didn't have to opt out and I was charged in CAD. This was at a location in a city center.

Just got another forced DCC, this time Pizza Hut.

It seems to be only restaurants where this has happened (forced) everywhere else I'm at least asked.

Time to do another chargeback, again it's the criminals at eservice.pl that brought the forced DCC. I'm wondering if there is some sort of Polish agency these criminals can be reported to.

The pizza delivery guy kept asking me to sign but I told him I cannot sign this because I won't acknowledge the fraud. He claimed he was new and had no idea how to do a refund.

Which is entirely possible. Because the merchants there lease stuff and never do their own, it's possible that nobody really at the store would know what to do - they just lease the terminal and get told by eservice how to run it. So a delivery guy - much less of a chance he'd know anything either.

I remember getting delivery from Domino's and I was vigilant and an older gentleman with a mustache ( ;) ) got very perplexed when he saw the DCC prompt - he started mumbling "uhhhh USD or PLN what is this?" so I told him to hit PLN. ;) So he clearly had no idea what this is all about.

I'm quite familiar with DCC processing of Mastercard transactions, how to avoid it and how to dispute it if it is involuntarily applied.. until this past week, when I have seen a strange phenomenon. My card currency is AUD, and normally if DCC was applied, the transaction would appear only with and AUD amount.

This past week I did a transaction in Hong Kong, to the value of HKD 322. This should have been converted by Mastercard as approx AUD 60.99. The offering on the slip was HKD 322 or AUD 68.45. Obviously we selected the HKD rate, however the amount has charged to the card showing the original amount of HKD 322 and the DCC conversion on AUD 68.45, as if the processing bank sent both amounts to my bank thus manipulating the exchange rate. As you can see all the adjacent transactions were processed correctly.

Has anyone seen this before, is this a new "escalatedly bad" implementation of DCC, where the DCC provider is now providing both amounts foreign and local to your bank? And any way to avert this, short of paying by cash? (The merchant didn't take Diners Club, and I don't have a forex-free Amex).

Looking for anyones inputs on this please... the receipt does not indicate who the acquiring bank was.

Obviously something strange is going on here... the merchant was a restaurant called Brickhouse in Hong Kong, below is my charge slip extract and an extract from my bank statement. Notice the x-rate on all the transactions that were processed normally in HKD on the same day..

That is very strange.


Strange indeed. So when you selected HKD did you do that in writing or on the terminal?

If you selected on the terminal AND the receipt and still got charged in AUD that is totally fraudulent.

The fine print on that receipt telling you that you are opting out of MC doing the exchange didn't seemed tied to whichever box you checked. So bad.

Indeed. I didn't catch that. It's not the "Mastercard" conversion but the BANK'S conversion!!!!

We did it only on the hard copy. The staff were uncooperative and did not allow as near the machine..

Kinda reminds me of a fair number of US and Mexican merchants, unfortunately. Hopefully it's not a common feature of countries where chip and signature is/was standard.

(Although at least with those two countries, DCC doesn't seem to be common/hard to avoid. Which doesn't seem to be the case in HK as you've experienced. :td:)

//Obviously we selected the HKD rate, however the amount has charged to the card showing the original amount of HKD 322 and the DCC conversion on AUD 68.45, as if the processing bank sent both amounts to my bank thus manipulating the exchange rate. As you can see all the adjacent transactions were processed correctly.

You've been DCCed, no doubt
No way the rate exactly matches otherwise

//Has anyone seen this before, is this a new “escalatedly bad” implementation of DCC, where the DCC provider is now providing both amounts foreign and local to your bank? And any way to avert this, short of paying by cash? (The merchant didn’t take Diners Club, and I don’t have a forex-free Amex).

I don't think it's new
When I've been DCCed, some banks' CS can read the overseas currency amount to me even tho only card currency appears in card statement
Your issued bank chose to display the info too (which?) (displaying this info may complicate your Aus bank's CS)

//Looking for anyones inputs on this please... the receipt does not indicate who the acquiring bank was.

Can't. Typical HK/Macau anonymous coward paper

//Obviously something strange is going on here... the merchant was a restaurant called Brickhouse in Hong Kong, below is my charge slip extract and an extract from my bank statement.

Charge them back
Then CC complaint to HK Tourism Board for their follow up with merchant

Fortunately there's the carbon copy paper, so a chargeback should be straightforward.

Our AU bank is Latitude Finance. It is a 28 degrees card. I've already sent in a chargeback request. I'm sure it will confuse them that both currencies appear on the statement.. I'll report back how it goes.

Matt_L, thanks for posting this. It prompted me to check my recent Hong Kong transactions and discover that I was DCC'd by the Courtyard by Marriott Sha Tin's restaurant on my Citi Prestige card.

It doesn't match your exact scenario -- the charge on my account showed only USD, whereas all the other charges show the billed HKG amounts for reference, so this seems like just a case of not respecting my choice. When I called in to dispute, the agent said the conversion had been done by Mastercard, but I'm not sure she could really tell.

This was my first time disputing with Citi. None of the on-line options was helpful for DCC -- the "Incorrect amount" option asked me what the amount should have been, but it wouldn't accept letters (e.g., HKD). The "Other" option resulted in a prompt to call. They immediately refunded the difference (after taking me at my word for what the amount should have been, based on the exchange rate!). I also pressed for follow-up with the merchant; they said they would -- hopefully it's true. I may write the hotel, as I stayed six nights and the staff were great, but not respecting a DCC choice is a serious black mark.

Seth

Hong Kong is reasonably good because there are carbon copy signature slips. You can always ask for a reprint or courtesy copy. This will confirm whether or not there was DCC.

Based on the circumstances, I doubt Citi is pursuing a chargeback.

Yeah, the USD amount offered on the slip matches what I was charged. Sad that they won't pursue it, though I agree it isn't worth it to them for US$6.

Seth

No bank will reverse charges or even investigate over such small discrepancy. If a cardholder has evidence of unauthorized DCC (in single or low double digits), most likely the bank will simply credit the disputed amount.

Which places did she run into DCC?

Many big box retailers in the US have it. We simply don't see DCC because the the ubiquity of USD denominated cards. I've witnessed it firsthand with my sister-in-law's AUD card, but my data points are now all nearly 5 years old. Mrs. Majuki has a single non-USD denominated card, but with no rewards and a FTF, it's not worthwhile to use just to collect DCC data points. In all cases of DCC with the exception of Avis the choice appears on the customer facing credit card terminal. For retail transactions, the cashier did not seem to have the ability to selection a currency, and opting out was straightforward. I further maintain that lack of a language barrier and customer service attitudes in the US would tend to favor a better experience even in the face of DCC.

In Madrid currently. Almost every transaction is being asked USD or Euros. Of course I choose Euros. One restaurant I was at tonight charged me in USD without asking, but hey, what can you do? (I don’t really have any Spanish)

Amex is not accepted most places here.

ApplePay (Chase Visa) does not stop DCC, but it does prevent you from having to sign.

Supermarkets seem to not ask for USD and only charge in Euros.
Renfe only charges in Euros.
BBVA ATM asked if I wanted to withdraw in USD or Euros, of course I chose Euros.
I think I hate DCC at ATMs the most.

My Spanish isn't too good but would something like "quisiera pagar en euros, por favor" work (obviously before they push the USD button for you)? Otherwise, there's always the chargeback route.

As for ATMs, I think that's one of the less objectionable sources of DCC since it's a lot easier to opt out vs. some purchase situations.