Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Jun 25, 2021, 11:35 pm
#9361
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The biggest banks and some credit unions have them. I've yet to see the latter have them enabled at all, though, while the former only have them enabled for their own customers. I have no idea if/when any of that will change seeing as they've had the readers for at least a few years now.
They have some ATMs with EMV readers for some time now but you're never sure that a given ATM is using EMV.
Of course contactless at POS is huge, especially outside the US. Or has been for a long time, with the US kind of catching up -- I think pandemic may have spurred many retailers to adopt contactless.
Jun 26, 2021, 9:27 am
#9362
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
I went to Red Robin last weekend and my table didn’t even have a tablet on it. Two tables over did though and it was still the old model that only takes magstrip.
Jun 26, 2021, 11:29 am
#9363
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
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This inconsistency is what drives me nuts. I shouldn’t have to ask to sit at a table with a tablet, and then pray that the tablets Apple Pay works.
Jun 26, 2021, 11:38 am
#9364
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
Totally agree. Applebee’s has been very good on this front. Every time and every location I’ve been to has had the tablet and working contactless and EMV.
Jun 27, 2021, 1:06 pm
#9365
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Granted, if your card got hit by that sort of attack, your bank didn't implement EMV properly. But still.
It's been quite a while since I went to one but in my experience the tablets were pretty consistently at the indoor tables. Outdoors and at the bar, on the other hand? Not so much.
Jun 27, 2021, 1:09 pm
#9366
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
I have some bad news: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/06/...-shimmer-gang/
Granted, if your card got hit by that sort of attack, your bank didn't implement EMV properly. But still.
I think a few did, but merchant acceptance was already fairly high beforehand (at least from a technical standpoint; training, geographic variations, etc. are different issues). The new habits may very well not be sticking, either, so it's possible the doubling of consumer usage (5->10% or so) will be a one time deal. We don't know for sure yet either way.
It's been quite a while since I went to one but in my experience the tablets were pretty consistently at the indoor tables. Outdoors and at the bar, on the other hand? Not so much.
Granted, if your card got hit by that sort of attack, your bank didn't implement EMV properly. But still.
I think a few did, but merchant acceptance was already fairly high beforehand (at least from a technical standpoint; training, geographic variations, etc. are different issues). The new habits may very well not be sticking, either, so it's possible the doubling of consumer usage (5->10% or so) will be a one time deal. We don't know for sure yet either way.
It's been quite a while since I went to one but in my experience the tablets were pretty consistently at the indoor tables. Outdoors and at the bar, on the other hand? Not so much.
Jun 27, 2021, 2:07 pm
#9367
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I have some bad news: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/06/...-shimmer-gang/
Granted, if your card got hit by that sort of attack, your bank didn't implement EMV properly. But still.
I think a few did, but merchant acceptance was already fairly high beforehand (at least from a technical standpoint; training, geographic variations, etc. are different issues). The new habits may very well not be sticking, either, so it's possible the doubling of consumer usage (5->10% or so) will be a one time deal. We don't know for sure yet either way.
It's been quite a while since I went to one but in my experience the tablets were pretty consistently at the indoor tables. Outdoors and at the bar, on the other hand? Not so much.
Granted, if your card got hit by that sort of attack, your bank didn't implement EMV properly. But still.
I think a few did, but merchant acceptance was already fairly high beforehand (at least from a technical standpoint; training, geographic variations, etc. are different issues). The new habits may very well not be sticking, either, so it's possible the doubling of consumer usage (5->10% or so) will be a one time deal. We don't know for sure yet either way.
It's been quite a while since I went to one but in my experience the tablets were pretty consistently at the indoor tables. Outdoors and at the bar, on the other hand? Not so much.
The same crowd that just “won’t trust it” a few years ago. Things have definitely changed for the better.
as for ATM skimming, use contactless and no shimming can happen.
Jun 27, 2021, 10:47 pm
#9368
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I think contactless usage is here to stay. Arizona pretty much opened up and it makes me happy to see old folks tapping phones and cards.
The same crowd that just “won’t trust it” a few years ago. Things have definitely changed for the better.
as for ATM skimming, use contactless and no shimming can happen.
The same crowd that just “won’t trust it” a few years ago. Things have definitely changed for the better.
as for ATM skimming, use contactless and no shimming can happen.
But I don't know if contactless ATMs are common? I'm currently in France, have been about a week. I've used Apple Pay most of the time. I try to use my Amex Green card. A few places will reject the Apple Pay and I have to switch to a Visa (Sapphire Preferred) and a couple of times, they wanted the physical card.
I've not had to go to ATM yet.
I need cash for some upcoming things though so I have to remember to use a few of the bills I have but it's so much easier to present my Apple Watch, especially since I'm masked most of the time.
The less I have to go to the ATM, the better.
Jun 28, 2021, 1:21 am
#9369
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They seem to be common in the Czech Republic, anyway. From the DCC thread (thanks Majuki ):
It's possible similar exist in France and elsewhere in the EU, too, but we'd need datapoints from people to be sure.
Jun 28, 2021, 11:42 am
#9370
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I finally found an area Mobil station with Verifone contactless readers at their Gilbarco pumps (MSD only, though). Unfortunately contactless at the pump at all still very uncommon among Mobil stations around here. I would have chalked it up to most of them here having different pumps and getting EMV capable readers early on except that another Gilbarco station (the one that I said had switched branding to Mobil during the pandemic) had replaced their pumps entirely and didn't get contactless readers. As it was my first time at the location with the readers I don't know if they recently got them or if they got them when they first replaced the pumps.
Also, AutoZone apparently got EMV contactless finally with their iSC250s. I don't know how long they've had it, though, nor do I know whether it came with any other side effects (like enabling Quick Chip or removing PIN support).
Also, AutoZone apparently got EMV contactless finally with their iSC250s. I don't know how long they've had it, though, nor do I know whether it came with any other side effects (like enabling Quick Chip or removing PIN support).
Jun 28, 2021, 3:37 pm
#9371
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
My local Dunkin’ franchisee has upgraded their Verifone MX915s to Verifone m400s. Hopefully contactless is more reliable on these.
Jun 28, 2021, 4:02 pm
#9372
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Speaking of AmEx, I just pulled up the app and apparently the statement says that the charge happened in a different county than where the Dunkin' actually is. The "business location" info when you click/tap on the charge is correct, though. This might be typical for Dunkin' franchisees for all I know.
Jun 28, 2021, 4:06 pm
#9373
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
Visa was always fairly reliable for me there. MC, though, not so much. I did use AmEx recently at my local Dunkin', though, and was pleased to see that they finally enabled EMV contactless on the other networks. (For the longest time they were MSD only on everything but Visa, likely because the other networks' rules at the time didn't require anything else.)
Speaking of AmEx, I just pulled up the app and apparently the statement says that the charge happened in a different county than where the Dunkin' actually is. The "business location" info when you click/tap on the charge is correct, though. This might be typical for Dunkin' franchisees for all I know.
Speaking of AmEx, I just pulled up the app and apparently the statement says that the charge happened in a different county than where the Dunkin' actually is. The "business location" info when you click/tap on the charge is correct, though. This might be typical for Dunkin' franchisees for all I know.
Jun 29, 2021, 12:13 pm
#9374
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That’s interesting. The only Amex network card I have isn’t issued by Amex themselves but by Wells Fargo. I’ve never had any issues with certain networks going through at Dunkin but I have had issues of it not actually reading my card. I’ve thought it was an issue with my card but then it will read fine at other places. Dunkin certainly isn’t the only place with this issue or the worst though. I went to Panera Bread twice this weekend and contactless worked at one location and not at the other (tried physical card and Apple Pay) and it didn’t ever recognize it. The location that it worked at had the four dots at the top and the one where it didn’t work didn’t have this though.
Jun 30, 2021, 2:22 pm
#9375
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium
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Speaking of AmEx, I just pulled up the app and apparently the statement says that the charge happened in a different county than where the Dunkin' actually is. The "business location" info when you click/tap on the charge is correct, though. This might be typical for Dunkin' franchisees for all I know.
