Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Nov 9, 2018, 3:11 pm
#5026
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
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Posts: 3,516
Nov 9, 2018, 5:27 pm
#5027
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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That too.
Also, I really hope Target isn't going to do what Kroger did: enable contactless at a few locations for a few months and then disable it afterward claiming that "no one was using it". I feel like there'd be more reports by now if it's rolling out to all of them. We'll see in any case.
Also, I really hope Target isn't going to do what Kroger did: enable contactless at a few locations for a few months and then disable it afterward claiming that "no one was using it". I feel like there'd be more reports by now if it's rolling out to all of them. We'll see in any case.
Nov 9, 2018, 5:30 pm
#5028
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
That too.
Also, I really hope Target isn't going to do what Kroger did: enable contactless at a few locations for a few months and then disable it afterward claiming that "no one was using it". I feel like there'd be more reports by now if it's rolling out to all of them. We'll see in any case.
Also, I really hope Target isn't going to do what Kroger did: enable contactless at a few locations for a few months and then disable it afterward claiming that "no one was using it". I feel like there'd be more reports by now if it's rolling out to all of them. We'll see in any case.
Kroger will enable Contactless again eventually. They will have no choice.
Nov 9, 2018, 5:33 pm
#5029
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
That too.
Also, I really hope Target isn't going to do what Kroger did: enable contactless at a few locations for a few months and then disable it afterward claiming that "no one was using it". I feel like there'd be more reports by now if it's rolling out to all of them. We'll see in any case.
Also, I really hope Target isn't going to do what Kroger did: enable contactless at a few locations for a few months and then disable it afterward claiming that "no one was using it". I feel like there'd be more reports by now if it's rolling out to all of them. We'll see in any case.
If it’s anything like the EMV rollout, we will see it within a month at most stores.
Nov 9, 2018, 7:43 pm
#5030
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
They’re here in Arizona, not turned on yet though.
Nov 9, 2018, 8:10 pm
#5031
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Anyone have any idea how the drive-through works? Will they hand it to you if you want to pay with a card?
Sure, but I still see people complaining about Safeway not supporting it despite it being announced in the tech media and there being signs in-store (and both apparently don't have any indication on the terminal other than the dots). That may be more due to the known bugs though.
The question is when "eventually" is. That may be a while without some sort of mandate, especially considering that Walmart also aren't fans of contactless and are basically one of the only major retailers to not support it in Canada.
I've been meaning to go back to that one location that I noticed that had QC-like behavior. Maybe it's actually enabled by now?
I think Target enabling it in San Francisco is at least a place where there is somewhat of a chance that people will use it. Kroger enabled it randomly and it did not make much sense what they did, how they did it, or why. Also I believe Target has enabled EMV Contactless while Kroger was running MSD during its most "formal" test pre-Chip card.
I've been meaning to go back to that one location that I noticed that had QC-like behavior. Maybe it's actually enabled by now?
Nov 9, 2018, 9:49 pm
#5032
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Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
I can confirm that my nearby Target does Quick Chip now. Didn't see the dots though.
Speaking of QC, didn't Kroger do their contactless test while they were turning on Quick Chip?
BTW I also wasn't asked for PIN. While the purchase was under $50, other QC merchants typically got rid of whatever CVM waivers they had for PIN when they enabled it. Hopefully this doesn't mean they disabled PIN altogether.
Speaking of QC, didn't Kroger do their contactless test while they were turning on Quick Chip?
BTW I also wasn't asked for PIN. While the purchase was under $50, other QC merchants typically got rid of whatever CVM waivers they had for PIN when they enabled it. Hopefully this doesn't mean they disabled PIN altogether.
Nov 9, 2018, 9:50 pm
#5033
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
Many years ago, Jack in the Box had built significant support for tap. This was way before the mobile wallets. In that scenario, tap only units were placed at the exterior by the drive thru pickup area.
That was a wasted investment, and I don't think they will be as nice setup this time.
That was a wasted investment, and I don't think they will be as nice setup this time.
Nov 9, 2018, 9:53 pm
#5034
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Many years ago, Jack in the Box had built significant support for tap. This was way before the mobile wallets. In that scenario, tap only units were placed at the exterior by the drive thru pickup area.
That was a wasted investment, and I don't think they will be as nice setup this time.
That was a wasted investment, and I don't think they will be as nice setup this time.
Nov 9, 2018, 9:53 pm
#5035
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I can confirm that my nearby Target does Quick Chip now. Didn't see the dots though.
Speaking of QC, didn't Kroger do their contactless test while they were turning on Quick Chip?
BTW I also wasn't asked for PIN. While the purchase was under $50, other QC merchants typically got rid of whatever CVM waivers they had for PIN when they enabled it. Hopefully this doesn't mean they disabled PIN altogether.
Speaking of QC, didn't Kroger do their contactless test while they were turning on Quick Chip?
BTW I also wasn't asked for PIN. While the purchase was under $50, other QC merchants typically got rid of whatever CVM waivers they had for PIN when they enabled it. Hopefully this doesn't mean they disabled PIN altogether.
Nov 10, 2018, 12:30 am
#5036
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Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Also, wasn't Chase Pay support supposed to happen earlier this year?
Nov 10, 2018, 3:43 am
#5037
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
I was thinking more along the lines of them deciding that QC offered sufficiently fast checkouts that it wasn't worth fully implementing contactless. However, knowing what we know now about their fight with Visa, it's more likely that they didn't want to pay the higher fees for contactless. Or really, anything running over Visa/MC period.
Also, wasn't Chase Pay support supposed to happen earlier this year?
Also, wasn't Chase Pay support supposed to happen earlier this year?
Nov 10, 2018, 8:58 am
#5038
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
I went to my local smoothie guy and he has a Clover POS. I was trying to pay via Samsung Pay but I couldn't find the sweet spot for MST. After, we spent a couple minutes and he used my card, I realized, I should have tried at the bottom. Any tips for the Clover POS? Anyhow, I'll try it again in the future. He is thinking about getting the smaller clover device because he stated he has missed out on a few sales because they had Apple Pay or Android Pay.
I see, Home Depot is still blocking Samsung Pay.
My credit card was declined at Panera Bread via Android Pay. Tapped again and it went through. Weird.
I see, Home Depot is still blocking Samsung Pay.
My credit card was declined at Panera Bread via Android Pay. Tapped again and it went through. Weird.
Nov 10, 2018, 10:05 am
#5039
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I went to my local smoothie guy and he has a Clover POS. I was trying to pay via Samsung Pay but I couldn't find the sweet spot for MST. After, we spent a couple minutes and he used my card, I realized, I should have tried at the bottom. Any tips for the Clover POS? Anyhow, I'll try it again in the future. He is thinking about getting the smaller clover device because he stated he has missed out on a few sales because they had Apple Pay or Android Pay.
I see, Home Depot is still blocking Samsung Pay.
My credit card was declined at Panera Bread via Android Pay. Tapped again and it went through. Weird.
I see, Home Depot is still blocking Samsung Pay.
My credit card was declined at Panera Bread via Android Pay. Tapped again and it went through. Weird.
Nov 10, 2018, 10:20 am
#5040
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Well all of the Auntie Anne’s near me has switched over to the Revel system with customer facing Ingenicos. Looks like Focus brands is still moving forward with this thankfully as the Micros systems were literally old, ugly, and no joke falling apart.