Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Sep 29, 2018, 1:49 am
#4756
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
I am sure they are referencing PIN on debit, but it seems even signature on debit could be an issue. Although, I am unsure how likely an alternate processing network is used in the restaurant space. The point is not all PIN transactions go over to V/MC, but I don't think that is currently the case for PIN on credit. I never got a chance to get a tap/contactless debit card so far anyway, and I have decided not to put debit cards in a digital wallet (I don't use them for purchases).
https://www.digitaltransactions.net/...as-a-customer/
I wonder if this is how Kroger is handling "Visa" signature debit at Foods Co if they are not enforcing PIN on "Visa" debit cards.
https://www.digitaltransactions.net/...as-a-customer/
I wonder if this is how Kroger is handling "Visa" signature debit at Foods Co if they are not enforcing PIN on "Visa" debit cards.
WinCo is the same way with Visa Debit. You must use PIN and it processes US Debit AID. No way to bypass PIN at least not that I have found..
.
Sep 29, 2018, 10:39 pm
#4757
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,641
Two transactions in Northern California Safeway today; NFC worked just fine. One customer directly in front of me made a donation, but did NOT use a club card (clerk tried to convince the customer to take a card, wasn't even going to make them fill out the application, but the customer just wouldn't, and the customer was charged full price for their purchase). Maybe the NFC shuts off when it is loyalty card used plus donation made?
Sep 29, 2018, 10:52 pm
#4758
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
US Debit AID is used and I could not figure out how to bypass the PIN... had some communication barriers with the cashier and was barked at rudely to enter my PIN (I had already inserted a Visa Credit to see what would happen- EMV Decline is what happened). This store was in San Francisco and had a pretty long line behind me.
WinCo is the same way with Visa Debit. You must use PIN and it processes US Debit AID. No way to bypass PIN at least not that I have found...
WinCo is the same way with Visa Debit. You must use PIN and it processes US Debit AID. No way to bypass PIN at least not that I have found...
Sep 30, 2018, 12:48 am
#4759
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
I haven't actually sprung for the 35 cents to see how a Debit with Chip transaction works at the Tesoro-controlled Arco...
I was at a BP Arco in Sacramento that accepts credit cards last week but it was still NFC/Swipe only like it has been for a while inside, and swipe only outside. BP is supposedly not supporting NFC at the pump at Arco. Kind of odd since the Tesoro Arcos support it... they also now have Verifone registers but are not on the same BP system that the BPs east of the Rockies are on. At regular BP sites, the bottom of the receipt says "BP SITE ID" and on the receipt at Arco it just said generic "SITE ID" like it does at numerous unbranded stations.
Last edited by storewanderer; Sep 30, 2018 at 1:04 am
Sep 30, 2018, 1:13 am
#4760
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
No idea about whether bypass is possible. If it isn't, though, it could be because they don't want people concluding from not entering one that credit cards will work.
Sep 30, 2018, 3:32 pm
#4761
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
I just received an alert in Google Pay that I can use Google Pay to get cash at Wells Fargo atms.
Debit finally works at Costco. Funny thing, I was swapping cards in the app and my phone was close enough that it activated. It failed on the first try. Cashier asked me if I was using debit and I said yes and yet again while I was trying to swap to my WF Visa, it activated but it went through. I was shocked.
Debit finally works at Costco. Funny thing, I was swapping cards in the app and my phone was close enough that it activated. It failed on the first try. Cashier asked me if I was using debit and I said yes and yet again while I was trying to swap to my WF Visa, it activated but it went through. I was shocked.
Sep 30, 2018, 3:39 pm
#4762
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I just received an alert in Google Pay that I can use Google Pay to get cash at Wells Fargo atms.
Debit finally works at Costco. Funny thing, I was swapping cards in the app and my phone was close enough that it activated. It failed on the first try. Cashier asked me if I was using debit and I said yes and yet again while I was trying to swap to my WF Visa, it activated but it went through. I was shocked.
Debit finally works at Costco. Funny thing, I was swapping cards in the app and my phone was close enough that it activated. It failed on the first try. Cashier asked me if I was using debit and I said yes and yet again while I was trying to swap to my WF Visa, it activated but it went through. I was shocked.
Sep 30, 2018, 11:29 pm
#4763
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
Even if it did it should allow bypass just like chip debit cards do, but if it does ask at all it still seems silly especially with contactless which is supposed to be faster than chip. I will also be visiting my local Costco soon to try Google Pay Visa Debit and will report my experience here.
Oct 1, 2018, 9:48 am
#4764
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
Yesterday, using Samsung pay at a merchant I was prompted for a pin on my Marriott Visa card; was able to successfully bypass as "credit" (on a credit card).
This week I used an eligible Visa card in Samsung pay at a joint participating in the Uber credit rebate scheme. No credit, as it apparently sees the digital number only, not the registered physical one.
This week I used an eligible Visa card in Samsung pay at a joint participating in the Uber credit rebate scheme. No credit, as it apparently sees the digital number only, not the registered physical one.
Oct 1, 2018, 5:52 pm
#4767
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
TfL shows journey and payment history for US Visa cards in Apple Pay now. I can even go back 12 months
Oct 1, 2018, 7:20 pm
#4768
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 am
#4770
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516