Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Oct 2, 2017, 9:32 am
#2116
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Oct 2, 2017, 9:55 am
#2117
Suspended
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FWIW, I used Apple Pay in taxis in Sydney and Melbourne.
Bill was $50-60 for ride from MEL to CBD.
Of course tipping isn't as prevalent in Oz.
Bill was $50-60 for ride from MEL to CBD.
Of course tipping isn't as prevalent in Oz.
Oct 2, 2017, 11:10 am
#2118
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I did notice this when I tried to pay at a diner the other day with a Vx520. The cashier was eager to try it too but alas, “Insert or Swipe” and no contactless even though the lights were there.
Oct 2, 2017, 12:10 pm
#2119
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Big signs at Aldi by the registers that say, "WE NOW ACCEPT CONTACTLESS PAYMENT." Of course what a shocker, people are still happily swiping away their cards.
Our society will continue to live in the 80's while the rest of the world continues to distance themselves past us with better technology.
Our society will continue to live in the 80's while the rest of the world continues to distance themselves past us with better technology.
Oct 2, 2017, 12:52 pm
#2120
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Big signs at Aldi by the registers that say, "WE NOW ACCEPT CONTACTLESS PAYMENT." Of course what a shocker, people are still happily swiping away their cards.
Our society will continue to live in the 80's while the rest of the world continues to distance themselves past us with better technology.
Our society will continue to live in the 80's while the rest of the world continues to distance themselves past us with better technology.
* Contactless basically means ____ Pay in the US and will for a while to come. Maybe if Chase or BofA brings it back to the cards it'll be a different story. Or even if AmEx has it by default instead of as an opt-in feature. (I'm not sure Capital One + the Citi Costco card is enough to serve as critical mass for that.)
EDIT: the above is probably fairly pessimistic. I will concede that it's very possible that we'll all be okay with device-based payments eventually, but it might take the younger generation using them for a while first.
Last edited by tmiw; Oct 2, 2017 at 12:57 pm
Oct 2, 2017, 1:24 pm
#2121
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
I want to leave this tweet here as it sounds like Kroger will be supporting contactless in the near future after some updates.
Oct 2, 2017, 1:38 pm
#2122
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I want to leave this tweet here as it sounds like Kroger will be supporting contactless in the near future after some updates.
https://twitter.com/HarrisTeeter/sta...62769215934467
https://twitter.com/HarrisTeeter/sta...62769215934467
Oct 2, 2017, 1:41 pm
#2123
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For those curious about Panda Express everything is enabled...including EMV contactless? See attached.
I haven't seen any other locations around here with MX915s yet, however.
I haven't seen any other locations around here with MX915s yet, however.
Oct 2, 2017, 6:13 pm
#2124
Join Date: Mar 2017
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If people don't want to use it, they don't. And considering that you still have to sign/enter PIN with contactless* at a lot of places (even EMV contactless enabled ones!) and likely still need to bring a wallet for IDs and such, the value-add might just not be there for a lot of people.
* Contactless basically means ____ Pay in the US and will for a while to come. Maybe if Chase or BofA brings it back to the cards it'll be a different story. Or even if AmEx has it by default instead of as an opt-in feature. (I'm not sure Capital One + the Citi Costco card is enough to serve as critical mass for that.)
EDIT: the above is probably fairly pessimistic. I will concede that it's very possible that we'll all be okay with device-based payments eventually, but it might take the younger generation using them for a while first.
* Contactless basically means ____ Pay in the US and will for a while to come. Maybe if Chase or BofA brings it back to the cards it'll be a different story. Or even if AmEx has it by default instead of as an opt-in feature. (I'm not sure Capital One + the Citi Costco card is enough to serve as critical mass for that.)
EDIT: the above is probably fairly pessimistic. I will concede that it's very possible that we'll all be okay with device-based payments eventually, but it might take the younger generation using them for a while first.
My Empower FC Union credit card recently had a fraud charge on it, and while MasterCard has the technology to stop it before it's approved, the credit union still took a week and a half to get a new card for me... I wouldn't want that to happen with one of my debit cards.
Oct 2, 2017, 7:52 pm
#2125
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
Interesting that Panda Express does not list the AID and instead just says the card type used. Well at least the leaves no doubt it is enabled on purpose and uses EMV contactless. To make 100% sure you can actually tell on your iPhone if contactless is EMV or not so that would be a good idea to check that out.
Oct 2, 2017, 7:59 pm
#2126
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Oct 2, 2017, 10:04 pm
#2128
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Interesting that Panda Express does not list the AID and instead just says the card type used. Well at least the leaves no doubt it is enabled on purpose and uses EMV contactless. To make 100% sure you can actually tell on your iPhone if contactless is EMV or not so that would be a good idea to check that out.
I also wonder if more stuff will appear if inserting a physical card, which might indicate that it's actually using MSD contactless.BTW, I forgot to mention but they're using Verifone Point just like McDonald's and others.
There is a transaction log available when you tap on the card in the Android Pay app, which makes me wonder if maybe the functionality does exist. Might be worth trying out while it's in airplane mode (unless you already have).
Oct 2, 2017, 10:20 pm
#2129
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I have Chase send alerts to my phone for certain transactions.
International transactions regardless of amount are a flag.
I used Android Pay all over in Canada and what I noticed was this: If I ran a transaction at a place that used EMV Contactless, the "transaction flag" from Chase said "Account ending in xxxx (card number on physical card)." If I ran a transaction at a place that used MSD Contactless, the "transaction flag" from Chase said "Account ending in yyyy (virtual card number used for Android Pay).
International transactions regardless of amount are a flag.
I used Android Pay all over in Canada and what I noticed was this: If I ran a transaction at a place that used EMV Contactless, the "transaction flag" from Chase said "Account ending in xxxx (card number on physical card)." If I ran a transaction at a place that used MSD Contactless, the "transaction flag" from Chase said "Account ending in yyyy (virtual card number used for Android Pay).
Oct 2, 2017, 10:22 pm
#2130
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Went back to Chevron tonight. This Chevron has Wincor Nixdorf (sp) cash register and MX 915.
Tried Android Pay Visa. Selected Credit. Pinpad prompted for card security code. Tried code on back of card. Did not work. Declined.
Pulled out physical American Express that taps. Tapped card. Selected credit. No prompt for card security code or anything else, just immediately approved.
Android Pay is broken at Chevrons that use these specific registers. For some reason it actually seems to still work okay at Chevrons that use the Verifone registers... does not prompt for anything other than "amount correct?"
Tried Android Pay Visa. Selected Credit. Pinpad prompted for card security code. Tried code on back of card. Did not work. Declined.
Pulled out physical American Express that taps. Tapped card. Selected credit. No prompt for card security code or anything else, just immediately approved.
Android Pay is broken at Chevrons that use these specific registers. For some reason it actually seems to still work okay at Chevrons that use the Verifone registers... does not prompt for anything other than "amount correct?"