Chip and Signature failures
Jul 13, 2014 | 4:59 pm
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,336
I have read that Barclays made the Chip and Signature function as default, but it would invokes the Chip and PIN function when needed. Apparently it is not the case per your experience.
Jul 13, 2014 | 6:11 pm
#17
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,640
Have you used you chip & signature card with a pin without it being a "cash advance" transaction? If so, what card and where?
Jul 13, 2014 | 6:52 pm
#19
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DFW,OVB (Russia)
Programs: AA HH Gold SPG Gold BA
Posts: 1,823
I suggest reading this before attempting to use Barclays card as chip and pin
I hate to duplicate a post but somebody up the thread posted a link to the Barclay card travel community in which a manager details the technical aspects of being able to change emv offline chip pin any time anywhere
http://www.barclaycardtravel.com/t5/...737134#U737134
I thought it was really interesting and I don't understand why other US issuers don't do something similar and stop using "pin change" difficulty as an excuse not to go chip and pin. I read a while back that this is how pin changes are handled in the UK as well
http://www.barclaycardtravel.com/t5/...737134#U737134
I thought it was really interesting and I don't understand why other US issuers don't do something similar and stop using "pin change" difficulty as an excuse not to go chip and pin. I read a while back that this is how pin changes are handled in the UK as well
Jul 13, 2014 | 7:43 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,336
It is still not clear to me, when using a chip terminal the first time after changing PIN, do you need to use the new PIN or as we all know now at the POS of WMT, the chip and signature card can only be processed as EMV and no swipe. However no PIN entry of any kind is needed.
With the above in mind, how does the "activation" of the Barclay's card customized PIN works at POS?
Jul 13, 2014 | 8:27 pm
#21
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ATL
Posts: 214
Recently used Barclays card and activated it by using Chip and signature at Schipool. Then within 10 minutes, used it as Chip and PIN at storage locker (this was on a Saturday) and it worked fine. In every place where a person was involved (cashier, waiter, ticket agent) I had to sign. This was true in Amsterdam, Prague, and Dresden. It only asked for the PIN when I was at automated kiosks - train station and such. Only time I had a minor issue was when a waiter tried to swipe the mag strip since he assumed American card. It rejected and he immediately used the Chip and it worked fine and I signed.
But last year in Barcelona, before I had Barclays and just Citi HHonors card, a lot of places asked for a PIN even when dealing with cashiers. I just asked them for signature option and it worked out.
But last year in Barcelona, before I had Barclays and just Citi HHonors card, a lot of places asked for a PIN even when dealing with cashiers. I just asked them for signature option and it worked out.
Jul 13, 2014 | 8:50 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DFW,OVB (Russia)
Programs: AA HH Gold SPG Gold BA
Posts: 1,823
Thanks for the link.
It is still not clear to me, when using a chip terminal the first time after changing PIN, do you need to use the new PIN or as we all know now at the POS of WMT, the chip and signature card can only be processed as EMV and no swipe. However no PIN entry of any kind is needed.
With the above in mind, how does the "activation" of the Barclay's card customized PIN works at POS?
It is still not clear to me, when using a chip terminal the first time after changing PIN, do you need to use the new PIN or as we all know now at the POS of WMT, the chip and signature card can only be processed as EMV and no swipe. However no PIN entry of any kind is needed.
With the above in mind, how does the "activation" of the Barclay's card customized PIN works at POS?
Basically in your case
1. Set a pin online
2. Go to Wal-Mart or any other EMV chip capable location worldwide with a live CSR
3. Buy your goods and sign for transaction if prompted
Basically the way offline pin works is the pin has to actually be written on the actual chip in order for most automated kiosks overseas to accept the card.
Therefore this is just Barclays way of automating the pin write process in such a way that is completely invisible to the naked eye. After the pin has been retrieved from the server and written on the chip, the card can then be used truly just about anywhere
Just remember anytime you change the pin the same process has to be followed so that the card has a chance to go online and 're download the pin onto itself
At least that's the way I understand it after reading that post as well as keeping up with the EMV thread here on flyertalk
Hope that helps
Jul 14, 2014 | 4:56 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: IAD
Programs: SPG Platinum, HHonors Diamond, United Premier Exec
Posts: 16
In looking over the replies, it seems like my experience was not unique. The best post I've seen is the one that advises planning ahead for credit card failure and for unstaffed locations. My advice for folks is to get a Chip and PIN card. Period. It's not worth the stress.
Jul 14, 2014 | 5:00 pm
#24
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,614
Searching this forum and others before our recent trip to Europe gave little consistent info on whether I needed to worry about getting a rare (in the USA) Chip and PIN vs a merely unusual Chip and Signature card. Rather than opening a new credit card, I had found that Citi would replace my current card with Chip and Signature.
In retrospect, I absolutely wish I had opened a new account with someone else to get a card with Chip and PIN. Here's where the Chip and Signature failed me.
--At a French tollbooth with no attendant at 11:00 pm when we had just arrived in the Eurozone a few hours earlier and just needed to get the kids to bed.
--At several gas stations on a rural mountain road in France where there were no cashiers (or where the cashiers could not take cash because it was Sunday).
--At a train station in rural Sweden where there was ONLY a machine for tickets.
These are just the highlights--the ones where my blood pressure spiked because workarounds were difficult. The card was pretty much useless in gas pumps and toll booths everywhere we went. It generally did work where we could get a human to help, but that's not always the case.
What amazes me is that cards branded by airlines and hotels--which are obviously targeting travelers--don't offer this option.
Anyway, those were instances where Chip and Signature failed me. What about others?
In retrospect, I absolutely wish I had opened a new account with someone else to get a card with Chip and PIN. Here's where the Chip and Signature failed me.
--At a French tollbooth with no attendant at 11:00 pm when we had just arrived in the Eurozone a few hours earlier and just needed to get the kids to bed.
--At several gas stations on a rural mountain road in France where there were no cashiers (or where the cashiers could not take cash because it was Sunday).
--At a train station in rural Sweden where there was ONLY a machine for tickets.
These are just the highlights--the ones where my blood pressure spiked because workarounds were difficult. The card was pretty much useless in gas pumps and toll booths everywhere we went. It generally did work where we could get a human to help, but that's not always the case.
What amazes me is that cards branded by airlines and hotels--which are obviously targeting travelers--don't offer this option.
Anyway, those were instances where Chip and Signature failed me. What about others?
However, when we were within 10 KM or so of the BRU airport, we wanted to refuel the car before returning it to Hertz. This was a Sunday evening and nothing was open. We found an unmanned fuel pump at a Texaco convenience store, but none of our credit cards, including two with a chip would work. We then, as a last resort, tried a Visa debit card issued by a domestic (US) bank. It worked when I entered our pin, but the exchange bordered on being extortionate.
I looked into this when we returned home, and it appears that you need to have a pin to use along with a card with a chip, when you are at an unmanned POS terminal or kiosk in Europe.
Jul 15, 2014 | 7:51 am
#25
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ATL
Posts: 214
All of the POS systems used by people in Europe still have swipe ability along w/ chip. But if your card has a chip, the swipe may reject (at least that was my experience) and they have to use the chip/signature.
Almost every unmanned kiosk/ticket machine I've come across has required a PIN. But some will take a chip/signature. Last year in Barcelona I was at the metro trying to buy tickets and only had chip/signature at the time. First 3 machines I tried rejected and wanted PIN. Then 4th one was slightly different and didn't want PIN, it processed fine. Train station in Barcelona didn't need a PIN either, it read chip and I got my tickets.
Almost every unmanned kiosk/ticket machine I've come across has required a PIN. But some will take a chip/signature. Last year in Barcelona I was at the metro trying to buy tickets and only had chip/signature at the time. First 3 machines I tried rejected and wanted PIN. Then 4th one was slightly different and didn't want PIN, it processed fine. Train station in Barcelona didn't need a PIN either, it read chip and I got my tickets.
My wife and I spent about a week last September, driving to Mont St. Michel in France from Brussels and return, stopping every night or two along the way. I can't remember how many tolls we paid in France along the way, but it was probably somewhere between 15 and 20. We paid all of the tolls with a Capital One MC, which does not have a chip, without any issues. We also refueled once or twice using the same card without any difficulty.
However, when we were within 10 KM or so of the BRU airport, we wanted to refuel the car before returning it to Hertz. This was a Sunday evening and nothing was open. We found an unmanned fuel pump at a Texaco convenience store, but none of our credit cards, including two with a chip would work. We then, as a last resort, tried a Visa debit card issued by a domestic (US) bank. It worked when I entered our pin, but the exchange bordered on being extortionate.
I looked into this when we returned home, and it appears that you need to have a pin to use along with a card with a chip, when you are at an unmanned POS terminal or kiosk in Europe.
However, when we were within 10 KM or so of the BRU airport, we wanted to refuel the car before returning it to Hertz. This was a Sunday evening and nothing was open. We found an unmanned fuel pump at a Texaco convenience store, but none of our credit cards, including two with a chip would work. We then, as a last resort, tried a Visa debit card issued by a domestic (US) bank. It worked when I entered our pin, but the exchange bordered on being extortionate.
I looked into this when we returned home, and it appears that you need to have a pin to use along with a card with a chip, when you are at an unmanned POS terminal or kiosk in Europe.
Jul 15, 2014 | 8:25 am
#26
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DFW,OVB (Russia)
Programs: AA HH Gold SPG Gold BA
Posts: 1,823
All of the POS systems used by people in Europe still have swipe ability along w/ chip. But if your card has a chip, the swipe may reject (at least that was my experience) and they have to use the chip/signature.
Almost every unmanned kiosk/ticket machine I've come across has required a PIN. But some will take a chip/signature. Last year in Barcelona I was at the metro trying to buy tickets and only had chip/signature at the time. First 3 machines I tried rejected and wanted PIN. Then 4th one was slightly different and didn't want PIN, it processed fine. Train station in Barcelona didn't need a PIN either, it read chip and I got my tickets.
Almost every unmanned kiosk/ticket machine I've come across has required a PIN. But some will take a chip/signature. Last year in Barcelona I was at the metro trying to buy tickets and only had chip/signature at the time. First 3 machines I tried rejected and wanted PIN. Then 4th one was slightly different and didn't want PIN, it processed fine. Train station in Barcelona didn't need a PIN either, it read chip and I got my tickets.
Same here, I was in Spain 2weeks ago , did not have any problem using my CSP with chip all over Spain ticket machines in Barcelona for example, as you say the machines we ran across all just read the chip and processed it via no CVM. Other places gave slip to sign
On a related note, I hear that CSP may be getting pin capabilities in the fall/winter
Jul 15, 2014 | 8:37 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 26,106
Searching this forum and others before our recent trip to Europe gave little consistent info on whether I needed to worry about getting a rare (in the USA) Chip and PIN vs a merely unusual Chip and Signature card. Rather than opening a new credit card, I had found that Citi would replace my current card with Chip and Signature.
In retrospect, I absolutely wish I had opened a new account with someone else to get a card with Chip and PIN. Here's where the Chip and Signature failed me.
--At a French tollbooth with no attendant at 11:00 pm when we had just arrived in the Eurozone a few hours earlier and just needed to get the kids to bed.
--At several gas stations on a rural mountain road in France where there were no cashiers (or where the cashiers could not take cash because it was Sunday).
In retrospect, I absolutely wish I had opened a new account with someone else to get a card with Chip and PIN. Here's where the Chip and Signature failed me.
--At a French tollbooth with no attendant at 11:00 pm when we had just arrived in the Eurozone a few hours earlier and just needed to get the kids to bed.
--At several gas stations on a rural mountain road in France where there were no cashiers (or where the cashiers could not take cash because it was Sunday).
There are two types of PINs for Chip cards: "offline" PINs and "online" PINs.
France requires a Chip card with an "offline" PIN (in unattended situations, at least).
Most of the rest of Europe only need a Chip card with an "online" PIN.
But most banks in the US that do offer Chip & PIN only offer "online" PIN!
So if you have gotten a Chip & PIN card in the US that was only "online", you might have still had the exact same problems in those unattended situations in France.
So it doesn't help to "simplify" discussions of technology like this, because the information that get lost when you "simplify" (to talking as if all Chip & PIN cards are equal) gets you in trouble in some situations.
Jul 15, 2014 | 9:03 am
#28
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Everything I have failed me at an SNCB ticket machine in Belgium. Visa/MC acceptance logos displayed. Most cards said "technical problem" except my B of A Visa which said "Transaction refused by issuing bank" but B of A says they see no record of it.
Mag stripe would be pretty bad in the Netherlands. Many shops, including Starbucks, have the slot covered. In Starbucks case it's covered with a big no sign over a stripe card and "no magnetic strip". Yay for Capital One's "they have to honour all cards" argument. Chase Sapphire Preferred works fine there as no CVM.
Mag stripe would be pretty bad in the Netherlands. Many shops, including Starbucks, have the slot covered. In Starbucks case it's covered with a big no sign over a stripe card and "no magnetic strip". Yay for Capital One's "they have to honour all cards" argument. Chase Sapphire Preferred works fine there as no CVM.
Jul 15, 2014 | 10:06 am
#29
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ORDwest
Posts: 333
I will use this card until it gets replaced next year by an updated brain-damaged version. Cr@p!!
Jul 15, 2014 | 11:32 am
#30
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: LAX/BUR
Posts: 525
So if we go to Walmart and use the Arrival+ card after we have changed our pin, it'll be written on the chip and we should be fine? Even if Walmart doesn't ask for the pin during the transaction and rather uses the signature option since that's what it will default to?