Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Oct 21, 2014 | 9:28 am
#1261
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: ELP
Programs: AAdvantage, Amex MR
Posts: 2,461
One must remember the people who participate on this forum tend to be seasoned travellers. Many Americans are not. They have no idea about currency and the like. Some are even surprised that foreign merchants do not take US currency b ecause after all, or so they think, the US dollar is supreme and everybody should take dollars. So after a day or two trying to deal with foreign currencies, going into merchants who tell them something costs 4.80 just hold out a bunch of coins and say take what you need. So when they come to a merchant who tells them they can be charged in USD, to them it is a relief and they have no concept they are being ripped off or they believe one of the 3 great lies (we have no control over it, you lock in a good rate, no speak English) and think this is being done for their convenience. Especially after exchanging cash and having been ripped off there (do remember most cash goes about 10% over interbank rates, dcc at 7% above interbank seems a bargain not unjderstanding that with a proper choice of credit card, you can more or less get the interbank rate).
Hence dcc lives on as a sucker is born every day.
Hence dcc lives on as a sucker is born every day.
I am going to London and Dublin in a little over 3 weeks and I am already getting antzy and freaking out, man!
Only previous international trip was Mexico City and the hotel charged me in pesos, and I paid cash for everything else on the streets so no issues at all. One thing on my mind is DCC for sure. I want to use my Barclay card arrival as much as I can so I can hit the spend for the signup bonus. What worries me is I fear I may be forced to pay DCC. If I eat out at a restaurant or pub where you pay the bill after you have consumed the product what if I am forced into DCC by the merchant and they lie and say it is for my convenience, the machine can only do dollars for American credit cards, etc not like I can make a stink and refuse to pay since I have already consumed food and drink.
My first plan is to just straight up say I know what DCC is, most other american tourists may think you are doing them a favor, charge me in local currency, whats the problem mate? For every one person like me who makes a stink, you probably get 100 who think you are doing them a favor. Scam them instead and leave me be!
If that fails I will then say I will make a complaint with my bank, the rules state I must be given the option. Write on the recept DCC refused, then dispute when I get home.
Sounds like a good plan?
Oct 21, 2014 | 9:42 am
#1262
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: KWI
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 806
I am going to London and Dublin in a little over 3 weeks and I am already getting antzy and freaking out, man! Only previous international trip was Mexico City and the hotel charged me in pesos, and I paid cash for everything else on the streets so no issues at all. One thing on my mind is DCC for sure. I want to use my Barclay card arrival as much as I can so I can hit the spend for the signup bonus.
What worries me is I fear I may be forced to pay DCC. If I eat out at a restaurant or pub where you pay the bill after you have consumed the product what if I am forced into DCC by the merchant and they lie and say it is for my convenience, the machine can only do dollars for American credit cards, etc not like I can make a stink and refuse to pay since I have already consumed food and drink.
My first plan is to just straight up say I know what DCC is, most other american tourists may think you are doing them a favor, charge me in local currency, whats the problem mate? For every one person like me who makes a stink, you probably get 100 who think you are doing them a favor. Scam them instead and leave me be!
If that fails I will then say I will make a complaint with my bank, the rules state I must be given the option. Write on the recept DCC refused, then dispute when I get home.
Sounds like a good plan?
Only previous international trip was Mexico City and the hotel charged me in pesos, and I paid cash for everything else on the streets so no issues at all. One thing on my mind is DCC for sure. I want to use my Barclay card arrival as much as I can so I can hit the spend for the signup bonus. What worries me is I fear I may be forced to pay DCC. If I eat out at a restaurant or pub where you pay the bill after you have consumed the product what if I am forced into DCC by the merchant and they lie and say it is for my convenience, the machine can only do dollars for American credit cards, etc not like I can make a stink and refuse to pay since I have already consumed food and drink.
My first plan is to just straight up say I know what DCC is, most other american tourists may think you are doing them a favor, charge me in local currency, whats the problem mate? For every one person like me who makes a stink, you probably get 100 who think you are doing them a favor. Scam them instead and leave me be!
If that fails I will then say I will make a complaint with my bank, the rules state I must be given the option. Write on the recept DCC refused, then dispute when I get home.
Sounds like a good plan?
You have the benefit of being able to converse in English at least. Often a clerk will feign ignorance or genuinely not be able to understand what you're talking about.
With Chip cards overseas you usually have the terminal directly in front of you with the ability to select menu options on the keypad. (i.e. currency selection.)
Oct 21, 2014 | 9:57 am
#1263
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I am going to London and Dublin in a little over 3 weeks and I am already getting antzy and freaking out, man! Only previous international trip was Mexico City and the hotel charged me in pesos, and I paid cash for everything else on the streets so no issues at all. One thing on my mind is DCC for sure. I want to use my Barclay card arrival as much as I can so I can hit the spend for the signup bonus.
What worries me is I fear I may be forced to pay DCC. If I eat out at a restaurant or pub where you pay the bill after you have consumed the product what if I am forced into DCC by the merchant and they lie and say it is for my convenience, the machine can only do dollars for American credit cards, etc not like I can make a stink and refuse to pay since I have already consumed food and drink.
My first plan is to just straight up say I know what DCC is, most other american tourists may think you are doing them a favor, charge me in local currency, whats the problem mate? For every one person like me who makes a stink, you probably get 100 who think you are doing them a favor. Scam them instead and leave me be!
If that fails I will then say I will make a complaint with my bank, the rules state I must be given the option. Write on the recept DCC refused, then dispute when I get home.
Sounds like a good plan?
Only previous international trip was Mexico City and the hotel charged me in pesos, and I paid cash for everything else on the streets so no issues at all. One thing on my mind is DCC for sure. I want to use my Barclay card arrival as much as I can so I can hit the spend for the signup bonus. What worries me is I fear I may be forced to pay DCC. If I eat out at a restaurant or pub where you pay the bill after you have consumed the product what if I am forced into DCC by the merchant and they lie and say it is for my convenience, the machine can only do dollars for American credit cards, etc not like I can make a stink and refuse to pay since I have already consumed food and drink.
My first plan is to just straight up say I know what DCC is, most other american tourists may think you are doing them a favor, charge me in local currency, whats the problem mate? For every one person like me who makes a stink, you probably get 100 who think you are doing them a favor. Scam them instead and leave me be!
If that fails I will then say I will make a complaint with my bank, the rules state I must be given the option. Write on the recept DCC refused, then dispute when I get home.
Sounds like a good plan?
I can't speak for Ireland as I've never been there, but I do know it was the birthplace of DCC. Even fast food restaurants like Burger King pull the scam there. The worst part is that for transactions like that the dollar value is below the threshold requiring cardholder verification, so you just get handed the receipt and it's a done deal. Fortunately in those cases US card issuers have been quick to issue courtesy credits. While the cardholder doesn't lose out in this case, I still am unsatisfied with the resolution because the merchant doesn't get hit with a chargeback.
Aside from transactions where there won't be cardholder verification - like American fast food joints in Ireland - I would say that you'll have no problems opting out of DCC in most places as long as you specify pound sterling upfront in the UK or euros in Ireland. In fact, some waiters and cashiers will give you a confused look that says, "What else would I charge you in?" but it's better to specify upfront than to find out the cashier can't void the transaction after the fact. (Fellow member percysmith found this out at Harrods.)
If faced with a forced DCC situation, kindly ask the cashier to void the first transaction and walk you through the steps. If the cashier refuses to void the transaction, deface the receipt by circling the local currency amount, writing "merchant refused local option/DCC forced", and crossing out the exchange rate. I highly doubt it will come to this last case, but if it does please come back and we can help out.
I would say restaurants aren't likely to be a problem because at many places the waiter brings the payment terminal to the customer after the meal. You get to handle the terminal during the transaction, and any compliant terminal would offer an opt-out from DCC - assuming it's compliant that is. If you're presented with a question like "DCC Accept?" or "USD/EUR 1.333" or "USD/GBP 1.539 OK?" or anything that looks like DCC or an exchange rate, press the red cancel button immediately. It's a counter-intuitive process, and this is part of the reason why DCC is so sneaky.
Hotels are much less likely to be a problem. Just make sure you don't use express or quick checkout. Always go down to the desk and make sure they run the card on file and you get the final receipt from the POS terminal or their payment system that shows billing in local currency. If there is any mention of an exchange rate on the folio, demand that they void that transaction and rerun it. Check everything twice before you sign. (But also check to make sure the room rate is correct. Don't be like me in Hong Kong last week where I was so fixated on making sure I didn't get DCC that I didn't notice they had overcharged me by mistake!
)Please report back on your experiences and enjoy your trip!
Oct 21, 2014 | 10:01 am
#1264
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
When I ask for the check/pay at the cashier I always specify that I want to pay in (insert local currency). Sometimes they know exactly why, sometimes they act confused and wonder why I wouldn't pay in euros or whatever.
You have the benefit of being able to converse in English at least. Often a clerk will feign ignorance or genuinely not be able to understand what you're talking about.
With Chip cards overseas you usually have the terminal directly in front of you with the ability to select menu options on the keypad. (i.e. currency selection.)
You have the benefit of being able to converse in English at least. Often a clerk will feign ignorance or genuinely not be able to understand what you're talking about.
With Chip cards overseas you usually have the terminal directly in front of you with the ability to select menu options on the keypad. (i.e. currency selection.)
Oct 21, 2014 | 10:46 am
#1265
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: KWI
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 806
Poland's MO seemed to be more deceptive language than anything else. The terminal switched to English with a large "Approve Transaction?" Way down at the bottom in small text it would have USD above Green, Red for (local currency).
Nearly all the convenience and grocery stores had a customer facing terminal, but the cafes, restaurants, lodging, and some tourist attractions did not. Since the cashier sometimes didn't read enough English to decode it or didn't care to since it was busy, they just hit the green button probably only seeing the approve transaction part. (Giving them the benefit of the doubt in that event.) At sit-down restaurants they wouldn't hand me the terminal since they wanted to avoid the tip being placed on the card and not made in cash. (Per the locals.) Even though you just round up the amount so it's not much to begin with.
It tended to happen more in high volume locations like cafes during a lunch rush where I'll believe it wasn't willful. After I started pre-specifying that I wanted to pay in Polish złoty it happened less frequently, but still sometimes. I only had one place that I'm sure did it out of spite since they really wanted me to pay in cash. Plus a few touristy places (museums, one bar on a crawl.)
I'd always ask to have the transaction re-run if there was available time (not a quick line at a busy cafe.) If that didn't work I'd cross out the DCC language and USD amount on the receipt, and circle back with Chase who issued courtesy credits. Followed by a negative yelp or tripadvisor review if it seemed intentional and/or they refused.
ATMs complied but made it seem like you would unleash world war three if you declined their offer. Several required multiple opt-outs of their amazing opportunity.
I head back in six months so I'll be able to conduct further observations and experiments.
Last edited by LoneTree; Oct 21, 2014 at 12:44 pm
Oct 21, 2014 | 11:44 am
#1266
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Not forced like the Chinese locked terminals at least. But it was unfortunately unavoidable sometimes whether it was the wording, language barrier, the clerk's reflexes, or willful.
Poland's MO seemed to be more deceptive language than anything else. The terminal switched to English with a large "Approve Transaction?" Way down at the bottom in small text it would have USD above Green, Red for (local currency).
Poland's MO seemed to be more deceptive language than anything else. The terminal switched to English with a large "Approve Transaction?" Way down at the bottom in small text it would have USD above Green, Red for (local currency).
I feel like from these observations that some of it is a language barrier, but it other cases it's definitely willful disregard of your DCC opt-out choice. It also seems like in Poland DCC is everywhere.
Oct 21, 2014 | 11:44 am
#1267
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold
Posts: 9,605
I can't speak for Ireland as I've never been there, but I do know it was the birthplace of DCC. Even fast food restaurants like Burger King pull the scam there. The worst part is that for transactions like that the dollar value is below the threshold requiring cardholder verification, so you just get handed the receipt and it's a done deal.
But maybe they've even changed that little bit in some countries?
Oct 21, 2014 | 12:14 pm
#1268
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: ELP
Programs: AAdvantage, Amex MR
Posts: 2,461
Well the rules state that the customer must be given a choice for DCC, for small transactions that dont need authorization naturally the default should be local currency since you can't choose anything.
Thanks for the heads up all on deceptive choices on the terminal. I will be sure to decline anything that looks like an exchange rate or US dollars anywhere. I know some airlines are also deceptive for online transactions. Like you will be given a choice to choose between a set exchange rate (DCC) or an unknown rate. Naturally most people don't want to risk the unknown even though the interbank rate even at its worst is still less than DCC.
Thanks for the heads up all on deceptive choices on the terminal. I will be sure to decline anything that looks like an exchange rate or US dollars anywhere. I know some airlines are also deceptive for online transactions. Like you will be given a choice to choose between a set exchange rate (DCC) or an unknown rate. Naturally most people don't want to risk the unknown even though the interbank rate even at its worst is still less than DCC.
Oct 21, 2014 | 12:20 pm
#1269
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I've had my fair deal of "automatic clearance" myself, and it never happened that DCC was put upon me in such case. Isn't DCC automatically switched off when there is an automatic function? As the default option in the automatic system - even if the Banks don't like it - will be the local currency, and not the DCC scam.
But maybe they've even changed that little bit in some countries?
But maybe they've even changed that little bit in some countries?
There are the rules and Visa/MC policy as stated, but then there are other things in practice. It's just like how percysmith and I couldn't opt-out of DCC at Greyhound Cafe in Hong Kong the other week. The terminal simply didn't provide the option. There are locations that are highly compliant with DCC: Singapore, Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, and a few others. However, a few more merchants need to be smacked so a clear and conscious choice will be offered.
Oct 21, 2014 | 12:32 pm
#1270
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: KWI
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 806
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm still cautious about giving merchants the benefit of the doubt under these circumstances. In the place that did it out of spite I would have flat out refused to sign for the purchase and asked them to void the transaction. I have zero tolerance for merchant games.
I feel like from these observations that some of it is a language barrier, but it other cases it's definitely willful disregard of your DCC opt-out choice. It also seems like in Poland DCC is everywhere.
I feel like from these observations that some of it is a language barrier, but it other cases it's definitely willful disregard of your DCC opt-out choice. It also seems like in Poland DCC is everywhere.
Most of my Central/Eastern European journeys were the opposite.
Oct 21, 2014 | 12:53 pm
#1271
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Germany: Deustche Bahn, Rhine-Main S-Bahn, Vapiano, Drogerie Markt, Air Berlin, local restaurant in Koblenz, McDonald's at FRA
Austria: Renaissance Vienna
Slovakia: No data points
Czech Republic: Shell Kalna and two local restaurants in Prague
The only place that hit me was the Frankfurt Marriott. I used AmEx at the Frankfurt Airport Sheraton, so I don't know what the policy is there.
Oct 21, 2014 | 12:55 pm
#1272
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold
Posts: 9,605
The Intercontinental Vienna definitely does DCC, in fact you get DCC'ed when you don't opt-out (Which is possible, but if you don't ask to be billed in , they'll happily scam)
Oct 21, 2014 | 1:18 pm
#1273
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: KWI
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 806
I can't say I made many credit card purchases during my trip last year, but I didn't get hit with DCC at:
Germany: Deustche Bahn, Rhine-Main S-Bahn, Vapiano, Drogerie Markt, Air Berlin, local restaurant in Koblenz, McDonald's at FRA
Austria: Renaissance Vienna
Slovakia: No data points
Czech Republic: Shell Kalna and two local restaurants in Prague
The only place that hit me was the Frankfurt Marriott. I used AmEx at the Frankfurt Airport Sheraton, so I don't know what the policy is there.
Germany: Deustche Bahn, Rhine-Main S-Bahn, Vapiano, Drogerie Markt, Air Berlin, local restaurant in Koblenz, McDonald's at FRA
Austria: Renaissance Vienna
Slovakia: No data points
Czech Republic: Shell Kalna and two local restaurants in Prague
The only place that hit me was the Frankfurt Marriott. I used AmEx at the Frankfurt Airport Sheraton, so I don't know what the policy is there.
Although some of those places are mostly cash based to begin with and therefore I don't have many datapoints. My worst DCC offender was in Berlin though.
Oct 21, 2014 | 1:30 pm
#1274
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Yeah, that sounds like Marriott properties in Europe. I'm pretty sure hotels are big offenders here worldwide. In fact, the only times I've been hit with DCC have been at hotels.
Oct 22, 2014 | 5:06 am
#1275
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ORDwest
Posts: 333
Full disclosure: on that trip (first out of the country in decades), I used a VISA that had a 3% FTF and before the trip we loaded up with $500 worth of Euros at our local Travelex office, and my wife brought along some traveler's checks too. No wonder the banks and hotels were all smiling when they saw us!