Well out of the three transactions I ran today with my CSP the first was forced, the second selection on paper (which we all know is a YMMV situation as to whether they punch in my choice) and the third had no DCC.

The forced one said they couldn't void a transaction so I had them give me the difference in cash. I just realized I may be able to use my Discover here at some places so I'll use that one first...

For the paper selection, always ask for a courtesy copy. If the transaction is DCC later, do a chargeback. :)

I did, they didn't know what I was talking about so after a minute I just gave up.

Yeah, a chargeback can be done but chase just keeps reversing the original and inputting the correct charge a month later. The whole process takes months and leads to confusing statements. I once had a a DCC trans, chargeback, recharge, credit of recharge, and then re-recharge that never posted. All of this happening while months later and with the card not present except for the orig trans. lol.

Another thing, remember the ICBC 10-currency card? Turns out it's still a one-currency card based on the information stored on the card.
The only thing 10-currency is that ICBC will keep the spending with the rest 9 currencies posted to your bank account using those 9 currencies instead of the main foreign currency.
The benefits? You can pay the card using the cash of the 9 currencies you have.

Almost DCCed at Sheraton Dongcheng in Beijing.

The restaurant usually uses a 交行 POS which doesn't have DCC functionality for EMV transactions. However it switched to a 中行 POS yesterday, and when I noticed, the slip with DCC verbiage has already been printed (with the useless "choices" for you to tick).

So I requested this be voided, and we ran the transaction again together.

The POS did ask:

"CNY/USD blah blah blah (rate) YES/NO?"

But it shows only for 2 seconds, and there are no YES and NO buttons on the machine. All you have to do is press CANCEL at this screen.

So, is this POS compliant? Yes, it shows the rate, and "asks" for a input. However, it will choose for you in only 2 seconds, and its slip clearly contradict the fact that the POS cannot do a currency selection afterwards. Is this contradiction alone enough for a international lawsuit?

Also, probably the POS can select currency afterwards, but no one knows how to.

This seems like the setup at Greyhound Cafe in Hong Kong. The terminal flashes ENQUIRY for 2 seconds, but even pressing cancel does nothing. Once you see the boxes, you've already been hit.

In this thread where AA canceled and endorsed pax to the last flight of the day on UA, and pax were IDB'd and left for "dead" at 1 am mainly due to UA's system's fault, there is a sentiment that AA is ultimately responsible for UA's failure, since they created the situation for which they don't have a reliable way to resolve.

Now here, shouldn't any lawsuit directed toward Visa/MC in Europe or the US? China's failure to comply is VI/MC's responsibility. Since DCC came out of some lawsuits and regulator's actions, another lawsuit would give VI/MC a way out, e.g. ban China (or any country they deem non-compatible) from DCC.

I'm more interested in suing BoC because they break the rules, probably deliberately...

And by some other people's suggest, not allowing DCC from Visa/MC would be against the law as well...

zyxlsy - you do realise you can't sue BoC in a US court for DCC in China and suing BoC in a People's Court in China may result in yourself being locked up for 寻人滋事?

I totally understand the second part.

That's why I am interested to know whether people can sue BoC in some international courts or places handling international commerce disputes, because it is not strictly confined in China anymore. It's BoC breaking Visa/MC rule and stealing money from foreigner consumers.

My sister-in-law flew back to Sydney on Tuesday. As a parting gift, she had tabulated all of the receipts for her US purchases in AUD and left them on my desk for when we got back from taking her to the airport.

tl;dr version - we didn't see DCC beyond Forever 21 and Kate Spade, both of which made the DCC offer on the electronic signature pad, and the customer input the choice, not the cashier. There was no DCC at a number of other tourist places or chain restaurants. I asked my sister-in-law not to bias the experiment by stating that she wanted to pay in USD, so we kept silent during each transaction and let things play out.

At Forever 21, there did not appear to be a timeout or automatic selection even after about 20 seconds or so, at least at Forever 21, because I was fumbling to get out my camera as quickly as possible to take a picture. As I also indicated in my post from the other week there was no DCC at Macy's, the Cheesecake Factory, or at two of the Napa wineries we visited. After Presidents Day weekend, she made the following purchases in the US:

Popeyes - Santa Clara, CA

http://i.imgur.com/mrK2bGut.jpg

Transaction Date: 2/20/2015
Transaction Posting Date: 2/22/2015
Posted Amount: A$22.04
Currency Exchange Fee: A$0.55

IT’SUGAR - Monterey, CA

At first glance I thought we had a DCC candidate, but the screen was simply asking us to confirm the transaction amount (in USD).

http://i.imgur.com/2jh6Coit.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wl1LsWZt.jpg

Transaction Date: 2/21/2015
Transaction Posting Date: 2/23/2015
Posted Amount: A$10.24
Currency Exchange Fee: A$0.26

Sea Otter Shirts - Monterey, CA

http://i.imgur.com/6cWIkZOt.jpg

Transaction Date: 2/21/2015
Transaction Posting Date: 2/24/2015
Posted Amount: A$27.60
Currency Exchange Fee: A$0.69

Ghirardelli Chocolate - Monterey, CA

http://i.imgur.com/UqPZJPDt.jpg

Transaction Date: 2/21/2015
Transaction Posting Date: 2/24/2015
Posted Amount: A$41.01
Currency Exchange Fee: A$1.03

Linn's - Cambria, CA

http://i.imgur.com/Ak5mjCNt.jpg

Transaction Date: 2/21/2015
Transaction Posting Date: 2/23/2015
Posted Amount: A$76.97
Currency Exchange Fee: A$1.92


Nordstrom - San Jose, CA

http://i.imgur.com/gLTBLDut.jpg

Transaction Date: 2/23/2015
Transaction Posting Date: 2/24/2015
Posted Amount: A$36.34
Currency Exchange Fee: A$0.90

I've been using my Apple Pay here in Hk for almost a week now and I haven't had any dcc requests while using it. Does NFC payment help prevent DCC?

Yes, DCC is largely prevented under these circumstances. Hopefully with the increased acceptance of NFC/contactless payments it will buy us some time before the DCC scammers figure out a way around it.

I'm always the most concerned about DCC with small transaction amounts. These are the kind where the transaction is under $25 US equivalent, and the DCC markup is up to $1.25. The bank isn't likely to take up your case - I would still fight on principle - in the form of a chargeback, and in some cases your issuer might brush you off completely. These are also the cases where staff might deliberately select DCC for you, knowing that you're unlikely to fight it.

I almost got hit by DCC on PayPal just now. At checkout PayPal automatically chose my bank account, so I went and selected my card. It still showed a USD amount. Turns out that there's a very small drop-down that's very easy to miss that will let you opt out of DCC, but it cleared my credit card selection and selected my bank account again when I did this! This time, re-selecting my card showed the GBP amount instead of USD (1 USD = 0.63998 GBP according to PayPal).

Anyway, Diners Club shows a whole lot of information about the transaction and the pending PayPal transaction still says that the amount was in USD:

http://i.imgur.com/rjrtYih.png

However, PayPal's rate would mean that my £14 purchase would have costed $21.88 vs. the $21.51 that DC apparently charged. xe.com says 1 USD = 0.65579 GBP (aka $21.35). Could DC's exchange rates just be bad or is this in line with other cards when opting out of DCC?

It's hard to say how PayPal runs the transaction. Usually the DCC amount is the pending transaction amount. DC's rates would be competitive since they'd be using MasterCard's exchange rate, right?

According to https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/ it was 0.654922 GBP per $1 for the 5th ($21.38). The charge hasn't posted yet according to DC so it may be different then.

What would you do in the following case?
When I checked in at the Sukhothai Hotel, Bangkok, they swiped my credit card "just for guarantee". I didn't sign or press any buttons. When I checked out 3 days later, I expected to have to pay but they told me my card had already been charged. They gave me a hotel invoice (in THB), but no credit card receipt at all.
Sure enough, when I received my credit card statement yesterday they had charged me in the currency of my Visa card. The rate seems to be about 2% worse than other THB transactions around the same date.
What would you do in this case?

I know how it works in the USA but the way your response is worded, I'm not sure your card is denominated in US dollars but it should be the same thing.

1. You call your credit card issuer's customer service rep and state you are disputing the charge because contrary to visa/mc regulations, you were not given the choice of paying in bahts as required by the merchant's contract.

2. You may be offered by the credit card company to have the difference refunded on the spot especially if it's relatively small. If the customer service rep refuses, you ask to speak to a supervisor.

3. If that doesn't work, you follow procedures for disputing a charge. Now different countries have different laws regarding this so I can't tell you what will happen in your situation. In the USA there are a whole set of procedures laid out in the Truth in Lending law. You send via e-mail a copy of your letter to the hotel also threatening them you will expose their deceptive and illegal practices on various forums that will reflect badly on the hotel. Out of this, you may get some sort of courtesy response including extra rewards or a reduced price for your next stay or whatever.

4. At some point, the credit card company might do the right thing and charge back the charge and the hotel may re-submit done properly. Or, again a lot depends on local law n the country where the card was issue tough noogies.

I would dispute the charge with a reason code 76 chargeback. This is Visa's incorrect currency transaction code. Hopefully you have kept the hotel receipt showing the amount in THB only (no mention of EUR, a conversion rate, or accepting the charges in EUR). If your bank that issued the card is customer friendly they should take your reason code 76 chargeback request seriously. As JEFFJAGUAR says, if the amount of DCC small such as < €3 higher then perhaps the bank will credit the difference since a chargeback might cost them more. A credit from your bank should be accepted if offered, but it is not an ideal outcome since the merchant got away with non-compliant behavior.

The same thing has happened to me at some hotels in Europe before I knew about DCC. This is why I always insist on seeing the credit card transaction receipt before leaving because I have gotten involuntarily opted in to DCC before. What I do now for the preauthorizations at hotels is swipe my American Express, which does not have the capability of DCC. Then when checking out I say that I want to change my payment method and specify local currency at that time.

It's DCC on express checkout or priority checkout, similar to this BoC new scam 2 - DCC express checkout without consent .

I initially thought it wasn't allowed, but it is, subject to certain requirements http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan...n.pdf#page=576 . These requirement are being followed as assiduously as US DOT on rule 399.88.

The bxstardy thing about this express checkout thing is there is no obvious written documentation you *did not consent* - unlike a merchant slip where you ticked and maybe have a carbon merchant copy/taken a snapshot of the thermal merchant copy.

I'm not sure how well are banks with chargebacks in the Netherlands but here are the two extremes:
- in the US they will probably accept your complaint based on your own assertion but refund you out of pocket
- in HK they will require *you* to provide the documentary proof you opted out of DCC (this is not right - the merchant's bank (acquirer) has the burden of proof, but HK banks know they will not get into trouble for ignoring your complaint unless you have the proof so you can escalate the complaint to the HK bank regulator) but are more likely to pursue full disputes with the Thai hotel/its acquirer

As Majuki said it's probably better to insist on card charge on checkout every time. Use the excuse we used in the BoC Shenzhen Futian case - "we are participating in a card promo which requires us to sign a slip".

The other type of hotel charge is worse - DCC on prepaid rate (sorry, the offending hotel happens to be in Amsterdam).

At the moment, DCC over contactless is not allowed.

I always insist on a charge slip. If I get pushback (I never have) I insist it's required for reimbursement purposes. The same goes for some fast food restaurants in the US. The credit card terminal is sometimes separate from the cash register, so the cashier can enter the incorrect amount on the terminal. This has happened to me twice. I got burned the first time, but the second time the cashier tried to pass off the thermal receipt from the register, and I found out it was because he had ended up charging me $10 extra due to a typo. This has always occurred at a drive thru where I can't get a good view of the credit card terminal.

In this hotel case, I am not sure I can give the hotel the benefit of the doubt.

Wish I'd read this thread before.

Booked an apartment in France for €103.00. No mention of conversion or DCC on the booking screen. First I saw any conversion was the email confirmation which was in GBP. I even have screenshots of all the forms filled in, right up to the last screen which shows the amount in EUR. It appears if you use a coupon code, the currency conversion section doesn't appear on the website.

About 3% worse than MasterCard's rate. I'm not going to dispute this with my card issuer until after the stay has completed as I don't want the booking to be cancelled.

AirBnb offered a £10 voucher. But this can't be used with their referral scheme, so is unlikely I'll actually use it. And it seems unlikely I will need to book an apartment anytime soon.

Currently in Germany. I get a chuckle every time an Euronet ATM offers me a USD converted amount. Today, they offer an effective rate of 1.235 USD per EUR. Declined it and Capital One 360 charged me a rate of $1.087175 USD per EUR. Wow! Euronet is effectively charging a 13% transaction fee if you accept their offer.

Yup that's more or less today's interbank rate...the amount on the ATM is a month out of date (just shows how far the euro has fallen or the USD has strengthened). But here's the bigger question (out of topic to a degree). Can parity between the euro and USD be far away?

Well, analysts say that by the end of current year it's probably around 1 USD = 2 EUR, thus the 1=1 should happen very soon and then slipping even furhter.
Quite depending on the ECB actions and what Germans&French decide.

It might happen that next Christmas shopping would be cheaper to be made in Europe than in the US.

Quotes please? Which analysts?

It is already cheaper in Europe. Last time I was in the US 1 euro was 1.3 USD and prices were more or less similar. Of course I am comparing Paris to New York City prices and small town Slovakia to small town Alabama prices.

Transaction posted:

http://i.imgur.com/x4nw0DD.png

Looks like PayPal used the correct currency after all, but according to MC's currency tool:

March 5th: 1 GBP = 1.526601 USD
March 6th: 1 GBP = 1.523299 USD
March 9th: 1 GBP = 1.511999 USD
DC's currency rate = 1.523571 USD

I'm guessing they used the 6th's rate + a markup. Not sure if an extra $0.000572 is worth complaining about since PayPal wanted to charge me $1.562548 per GBP.

The exchange rate that MasterCard uses varies during the day, going up and down at various points. The website only shows a rate from one point in the day. It is entirely possible to make transactions within minutes of each other, which post on the same date but have different rates.

Back in January, I made three ATM withdrawals in Morocco on my GBP card within three hours using the same ATM. They all posted on the same date with rates of 0.0712, 0.0704 and 0.0701 respectively.

I've turned off the DCC function in paypal, took a while to find it hehe.

My authorized user got DCCed at She & He Hotel in Guangzhou, China (he didn't notice as it was his first time). The DCC rip off rate was 1 USD : 6.02 CNY when the mastercard published rate was 1 USD : 6.2585 CNY on that day. Thanks for this thread-- I lectured him on what to do if it happens again in the future.

This may be a little OT, but I have a question about how much card associations collect Foreign Transaction Fee.

Up to this point, my understanding has been that of a Washington Post's article in July 2005:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2900927_2.html

Hong Kong banks have started to add FTFs for HKD transactions. Previously I reported how Citi HK charged 0.4% FTF claiming AE charged it but AE HK denied this.

Recently we got the following claims for Visa:

Bank of East Asia http://www.hongkongcard.com/webedito...2002_25906.jpg

"Effective from 30th June, 2015
0.8% per transaction for Hong Kong dollar transactions made outside of Hong Kong or with any merchant not registered in Hong Kong (e.g. internet transaction). This fee is charged by Visa/Mastercard"

Bank of China (Hong Kong) http://www.boci.com.hk/pdf/eng/spec/...201501_eng.pdf

"All VISA card transaction in Hong Kong Dollars incurred outside Hong Kong will be imposed a reimbursement charge of 0.8% on the transaction amount (the charge is levied by VISA) which will be debited to the card account."

Fubon Bank (Hong Kong) http://www.fubonbank.com.hk/web/doc/...ce150305_e.pdf

"Surcharge on Cross Border Transactions in Hong Kong Dollars - including transactions made outside Hong Kong or with any merchant not registered in Hong Kong (e.g. internet transaction)

A 1% mark-up on the converted transaction amount in Hong Kong Dollars (inclusive of the 0.8%/1% surcharge charged by VISA/MasterCard respectively"



I'm curious - does Visa really charge 0.8%? Or is Bank of East Asia/Bank of China/Fubon making this up just because they can pass Mastercard's fee for Visa's.

Also in Fubon's case has Mastercard increased its fee to 1%?

I have a UNFCU chip and pin credit card. It is a Visa card. The card benefits claim it does not add any additional FTF over what Visa charges. It thus charges 1% FTF for foreign non USD transactions and 0.8% FTF for foreign USD transactions - e.g., a USD charge in Panama, where USD is used alongside Balboa currency.

A variation that I've not seen reported before:

My online statement (for a Visa card issued in the US) shows an entry for a UK transaction from last weekend. Alarm bells went off as soon as I saw the merchant name showing as "BLAH BLAH HOTEL DCC", but when I checked the amounts it became clear that the exchange rate applied was in fact the standard Visa rate for the day the transaction was processed. So I wasn't ripped off on this occasion.

I've no idea how widespread this is -- it's the first time I've encountered it (or heard of it).

Where in PayPal can you turn off DCC?

The Novotel in Taoyuan, Taiwan does this but only for the preauthorization or if you actually get hit with DCC. Without DCC the transaction doesn't show DCC in the line.

Was in Seoul last week and went on the JSA tour. Travel agency quoted me ticket price in KRW and ran my credit card, but when they gave me the receipt to sign it was in USD. Sneaky. Didn't even give me the option upfront. I promptly asked them to charge me in KRW instead so they reversed the original charge. I was worried that the reversal would go through as KRW whereas the initial charge was in USD so I'd eat some currency conversion fee anyway, but both charges were in fact in USD so exactly canceled each other out.

First time this has happened to me.

First time seeing non-compliant DCC in Korea for me...

Maybe it had the options but they just chose the wrong one for you.

I had the same thing happened on me at Lotte Market where a lady hit USD for me in milliseconds before I can react... The difference was several cents so I let it go.

But anyway, I haven't dealt with individual vendors like travel agencies so I can't be so sure. The smallest I've dealt with were small restaurants which all turned out to be pretty fine.

DCC at ATMs in Turkey
 

Not sure if anyone posts about DCC at ATM but here is what I discovered on a recent visit to Turkey.

Both transactions were on the Schwab card.

I made a withdrawal at an ATM in the parking lot of Sheraton Adana - there were 2 ATMs from 2 Turkish banks. I randomly picked one and just withdrew 100 TY as we did not have any local currency on us (flew in from DOH to IST and immediately went thru immigration to the domestic terminal to connect to our domestic TK flight but there was no ATM at Adana airport.) I did not see any equivalent USD amount nor any indication on the ATM screen about whether I wanted the conversion or not. It only showed the pre-set amounts and Other and once I chose the amount the machine processed the transaction.
It showed on Schwab side being $39.06, exactly 3% more than using the historical rate shown on XC site. It should have been $37.92.

I dont know how to dispute a DCC on ATM withdrawal and especially for $1.14 only.

About a week later I withdrew another 100 TY at ING bank's ATM at Bodrum. The ATM said there would be $4 transaction fee and asked if I wanted to continue. Since Schwab would reimburse ATM fee I continued the transaction. This time the screen showed me it would be $39.30. At the bottom of the screen there were options whether Continue with conversion or Continue without conversion. Needless to say, i continued without conversion. That withdrawal turned out to be $38.49. Schwab did not show the $4 being charged though.

So, these were the first times i encountered DCC at ATMs but there was no way to avoid the first one because there was no warning nor options to choose from as versus the ING Bank's. i could not understand why the $4 ATM fee did not show up at Schwab's side. Schwab normally shows the ATM fee and then reimburses the fee at the end of the month. (Fido would reimburse the next day the fee is posted.)

Last year I made numerous withdrawals at the ATM located at the driveway of Conrad Bali, Indonesia and there was no DCC.

Next time I would try to only withdraw from ATMs attached to a bank though it does not mean there would not be any DCC but I suspect those standing alone ATMs may be more rigged.

On another note, hotels converted the Euro bookings (a Crowne Plaza of IHG and a Double Tree of Hilton) into TY when paying the hotel bills. On the official booking channels, they are quoted in Euro but at the hotel they bill in TY. I cannot tell whether there is a padding. Because Euro has dropped so much so rapidly, it resulted to a few bucks higher than what they would have been had they been in TY all along.

I agree, when withdrawing, always use an international bank. They do follow a bit higher ethical standards due to fear of regulatory bodies. schwab generally reimburses the ATM fee a few weeks later. But you can always send in ATM fee receipt copy and they will promptly credit your account.