That is an example of a place printing out the receipt in US dollars before you even make the "choice." Very misleading. You can attempt a reason code 4846 chargeback since it is a mastercard. Chances are you will just get a courtesy credit unless it was a significant amount. Ideally though a chargeback is better because it causes a bunch of paperwork for the merchant. Good luck!

This is why I always ask for a courtesy copy reprint to make sure I don't get screwed. File the chargeback, and they'll have to reprocess the transaction in INR assuming your bank goes through with the chargeback.

Just to report back on some attempts to find DCC in the US, my sister-in-law used an AUD-denominated debit MasterCard from Commonwealth Bank for two transactions on Sunday. It's not a rewards earning card, and Commonwealth Bank passes on the 1% currency conversion fee applied by Visa and MC and charges a 2% FTF as a base rate. So, the best you're likely to see is a 3% fee for using the card. In the case of DCC you'd get hit by the 2% FTF + DCC markup. My sister-in-law already knew that the DCC spread wasn't worth it, but she was taken for a ride the first time she used her card in Hong Kong.

The first was at the Cheesecake Factory at Union Square in San Francisco. I thought the Cheesecake Factory would be a good candidate considering the number of tourists that like it and the fact that they might see some international card use. When we presented the form of payment, I didn't want to bias the situation, so we handed the card to the waitress without saying anything. The bill was $56.27, and the printed receipt didn't make any mention of DCC. We checked online and the pending transaction is A$72.33, which is close enough to the MC rate of 1.285182 AUD/USD from February 6th. (They haven't yet posted the February 8th rate.)

The second transaction was at West Elm in Palo Alto. We did not see DCC here either. They have non-EMV terminals with touchscreens/electronic signature pads. When she swiped her card it automatically processed as a MasterCard debit transaction with a PIN. The item amount was $38.06, and the transaction immediately posted to her account online for A$48.93. She also had a separate foreign transaction fee of A$1.47, which is 3% of the settled transaction amount.

I really want to test out Macy's, Bloomingdale's, and Nordstrom, but I hate to see her losing out on 3% every time just in the interest of continuing my DCC hunt in the US beyond airport duty free. :D

I think DCC is aggressively pushed in Asia because of more profits. It has now spread to ATM's too. Last year when I was withdrawing cash at Delhi airport I got a message we are giving you the best conversion rate using DCC, with a button to continue or "cancel". It makes one think, cancel means cancel the transaction. When I hit cancel, it continued the transaction without DCC. I am pretty sure 95% of travelers at 1.30 AM, after 17 hours of flight time and more just want to get to their hotel and hit the sack. I expect that until regulators clamp down on this, this will proliferate.

I think DCC is aggressively pushed in a lot of places because it can lead to more profits. We already talked about on here that we think it's largely the acquirer that pushes DCC to the merchant because it's the merchant who absorbs the headaches of a chargeback should the customer feel cheated. Most of the time the customer falls into the DCC trap and doesn't even realize it. However, for the cases where the customer files a chargeback for DCC, the merchant is the one resolving it. With this current arrangement, the acquirer can peddle DCC without any advertised downside to the merchant. The acquirer always wins, and the merchant comes out ahead enough of the time such that DCC continues to be offered.

Issuers lose out if they have a currency exchange fee, which is why many have responded by switching to foreign transaction fees. Some believe that Visa and MasterCard look the other way even with flagrant violations of published rules about how a DCC transaction must occur since offering DCC might compel merchants to accept Visa and MC.

Speaking of acquirers, even though FD says that DCC is an option on their website, does the acquirer also need to support DCC? Considering that most don't even have EMV enabled software for terminals yet DCC may not be a high priority right now.

My parents reported that in BKK (they don't remember which bank) - they were not given the option to not DCC, and if they pushed Cancel on the screen the ATM returned their card.

They were quoted a rate of 20000 THB = USD 650.50 + 180 THB fee. Nice scam they've got going there, charging 7% over what our bank would have plus the already exorbitant overseas user ATM fee. :mad:

I see an opportunity for tort lawyers to take take down Master card CEO AjayPal Banga and Visa CEO Charles Scharf's pants down in public. Fonance companies are fine by the feds, but unless some CEO's go to jail nothing will come of these types of scams. I subscribe to WSJ, NYT and Barron's. I am going to write a strong letter to the editor about this type of scam and also file a complaint with CFPB. I would encourage forum members to do likewise. Here is the link to file complaints.

http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

Unless Visa and Mastercard refuse to go along, this type of scam will continue.

Clamp down? Consumer groups seem to absolutely love DCC (and have sued to make sure DCC exists), and politicians love consumer groups. DCC isn't going anywhere, sadly.

Visa and Mastercard's hands are tied. They've tried to stop this nonsense, but got sued by "consumer" groups (which are really controlled by merchants) for doing so. This isn't their plague. Amex and Discover are smaller networks, thus not seen to have undue influence on the market, they have more freedom to protect their cardholders.

This is interesting because from the reports we've read Thailand is quite compliant with DCC for credit card purchases and will always give the quote slip and then honor the choice.

Some of the ATMs are really deceptive, and one has to press 'no' or 'cancel' to avoid DCC. In this case, cancel in fact cancelled the transaction, making it more difficult to determine how to bypass DCC. I've also seen a setup where you have to page through multiple screens and decline the DCC offer more than once. For example the wording was along the lines of, "Are you sure? We cannot guarantee the exchange rate if you decline. Press OK to accept and NO to cancel." Are you pressing OK to accept the disclaimer or accepting the DCC conversion? Does no decline DCC or cancel the transaction? Imagine most people getting caught in that after a long flight and being fatigued. 7% is outrageous though.

The problem with DCC is that it often occurs in a location where you're not native and might have a language barrier. You also aren't familiar with the consumer protections or options available to you if the merchant isn't willing to play along. Combined with the issuer's propensity to issue a courtesy credit for small DCC charges, the merchants don't have to deal with the pain of a chargeback, so the bad behavior continues.

I would also say AmEx and Discover have more end-to-end control of their networks. While there are third party issuers of American Express cards, Discover is the only issuer of its cards, right? Furthermore, while I don't have the numbers, I imagine that AmEx issues the vast majority of AmEx branded cards rather than a third party issuer. Visa and MC don't issue their own cards; they're simply the payment network. Also, depending on the fee structure, issuers can lose out with DCC since they don't get the additional profit if the card levies a currency exchange fee. Of course, in the US we've all moved to FTFs, so they'd get their cut anyway.

There are third party Discover cards, at least there used to be. GE and Continental Finance both issued them though I believe neither card is Discover anymore.

Diners Club is essentially Discover as well (excluding NA) and its a separate franchise in every country.

BTW, Costco/Elavon is apparently in the DCC game as well: https://www.costcopaymentprocessing....t-Overview.pdf. Not sure if DCC is automatic or if the merchant has to opt-in. Since Costco's currently selling $99 EMV terminals (effectively free if the merchant claims the AmEx rebate), there might be a whole bunch of smaller businesses who will soon be DCC enabled if the former.

EDIT: also, speaking of Elavon, they apparently have a "Best Rate Guarantee" (PDF):

Has anyone tried this?

The claim criteria are what you would expect, except for this: "Copy of your credit or debit card statement clearly showing another transaction carried out on the same day using the same credit or debit card which was converted at a more favourable rate than that offered by Elavon."

Also, they only give you the price difference they fleeced you by, so you have to waste all the time tracking down the statement, filling out their forms, and waiting 2 months for them to respond. The wording of the claim form also seems to intimidate you into giving up your chargeback rights too, or if they say no to your 'request'.

I'd say it's probably not automatic, but that's just a guess. Filing a best rate guarantee claim would be like pulling teeth. They also know few people will bother to go through with it.

I'm wondering will they deny a claim saying the rate is best but the 4.x% fee is not included in the guarantee?

I doubt it, I bet they'll honour it. For the whole two people who bother to go through the process.

I'm not sure if this counts as DCC per se but I used a HSBC ATM in Puerto Vallarta that showed a screen letting me choose between "local currency" and I think USD. I forget whether it spit out multiple currencies or if it only contained pesos, which is why I'm not sure.

It depends. There are some multi-currency ATMs that use Visa or MC exchange rates. If it is trying to fix a USD/MXP exchange rate, it was DCC. If it dispensed both MXP and USD but applied the exchange rate from the payment networks then it wasn't DCC. I encountered such an ATM in the Turkish part of Nicosia that dispensed Euros, Pound Sterling, and Turkish Lira but used Visa's exchange rate. Another case was a Barclay's ATM in Gibraltar that dispensed both GBP and EUR. I haven't been to Puerto Vallarta, but don't many of the tourist places accept (our perhaps even prefer) USD?

On another note, we finally struck DCC twice in the US! While the terminals were not compliant with Visa regulations, DCC was easily avoidable. I'll post details Monday evening after I've had a chance to scan the receipts and the transactions post on my sister-in-law's account.

My wife spent hours shopping at Lotte Duty Free, paying USD.

Then she got shopping disorientation and at the Lotte Supermarket downstairs, she chose USD when given the choices without hesitation...

First DCC in 2015!

Just to clarify again, Lotte Duty Free's 'native' currency is USD even though it's in Korea?

That is why you should hold your wife's/significant other's hands when in a shopping mall;)

Lotte Duty Free's 'native' currency is USD, and items in the store are displayed in USD. Paying in USD means you avoided DCC. In this case, a Korean cardholder using a card denominated in KRW could get hit with DCC even though the purchase is happening on Korean soil! It's one of those counterintuitive cases like the resorts in the Maldives that process in USD natively, but this reminds us that we always have to be vigilant and know what the local or 'native' currencies are for each situation.

I think they do, but at a worse exchange rate (10-12 MXP for every $1) vs the current rate of ~15 to 1.

Also FYI to everyone, the ATMs in Mexico are really big into stuff like being able to donate to charities and "theft protection", which I got bit with at the airport. The HSBC ATMs were of the charity donation type and I was able to easily opt out, but the Scotiabank one at the airport was misleading.

It is a similar situation in Gibraltar. Restaurants generally accept euros as well as GIP/GBP, but the euro price is a good 3-5% over spot, similar to the DCC markup. It is, however, convenient for small purchases where one doesn't want too much pocket change in local currency. The issue with Gibraltar Pounds is that they're almost impossible to liquidate outside of Gibraltar, only slightly better than holding Macanese pataca banknotes. Fellow thread contributor percysmith was kind enough to exchange roughly US$40 of MOP for HKD at parity (at a 3% loss for him) back in October to help me out of a similar situation after a friend had given me some MOP in anticipation for a trip to Macau that never occurred.

Oh I get the confusion. Yes Mrs. zyxlsy avoided DCC in Lotte Duty Free by selecting USD. But it's KRW at the supermarket downstairs.

It's a USD denominated world on the 9F, 10F, 11F of the Lotte Department Store Building, collectively called Lotte Duty Free.

And yes, ironically, Koreans can be DCCed on their home turf on those three floors~ Paying KRW cash there also means accepting DCC or not D, but just CC...

The rest of the Lotte Department Store uses silver signing pads with DCC functionality. The signing screen shows KRW and USD when American cards are swiped.

Be aware! There is no signs on the escalators from 9F to 8F saying "you are leaving USD world, choose KRW" :D

Just came across another instance of DCC in Mexico City. Had to go to the ER tonight, and upon leaving the hospital I was settling up and the cashier asked me if I wanted to be billed in dollars after I handed over my CAD MasterCard. I declined, and asked to be billed in pesos, and she processed the transaction as requested without hassle. I did notice, once again, the POS Terminal culprit is Santander.

As I had posted earlier in the thread, my sister-in-law has been visiting for a week, and we have had the opportunity to test out DCC at some establishments. Many of us have speculated that DCC is rare in the US and can easily be avoided in cases where it does exist. I have always suspected that the choice, if offered, would appear on the electronic signature pad, and the customer would be in full control of pushing the proper currency selection. We had tried the Cheesecake Factory and West Elm a week ago, and we saw no DCC at either location. My sister-in-law then proceeded to spend down her available USD in cash since she didn't much like the way the AUD:USD exchange rate has gone in the last two years. :D

We finally struck gold at Forever 21 in San Francisco. The cashier was patient while I was scrambling to get out my phone to take the following photo (and attached receipt):

http://i.imgur.com/mNjg7Mmt.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/06XgzeDt.jpg

The screen stayed at the DCC selection until the NO button was pressed. Since the DCC offer was 3% and the card used has a 2.5% currency exchange fee, not much was saved by opting out of DCC. As more issuers convert to foreign transaction fees, this calculus will undoubtedly change.

These transaction posted using the Visa exchange rate of 1.294202 AUD/USD from 2/14:

DCC Offer: A$33.20
DCC Markup: 3.00%
Posted Amount: A$32.23
Currency Exchange Fee: A$0.81
Amount Saved: A$0.16

We then went across the street to Kate Spade, where we also encountered DCC with a similar setup. When my sister-in-law specified to the cashier to pay in USD, we got a blank stare. While I wasn't able to see the cashier's point of view, I don't think the cashier had any way to force the currency selection. Here is what we saw:

http://i.imgur.com/QhDD6Eit.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/V7bC33Yt.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ZJR6XIqt.jpg

I was in a better position to help her decline DCC and get a subsequent photo showing the standard electronic signature pad with amount in USD. Like the receipt from Forever 21, there was no mention of DCC.

DCC Offer: A$210.25
DCC Markup: 3.333%
Posted Amount: A$204.08
Currency Exchange Fee: A$5.10
Amount Saved: A$1.07

Macy's at Union Square in San Francisco didn't present any DCC, and showed the standard screens I've seen everywhere in the US about e-mailing or printing a receipt:

http://i.imgur.com/CjOhFvpt.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BrOHGr7t.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/sfd1u3jt.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/I6GcJrKt.jpg

Posted Amount: A$33.47
Currency Exchange Fee: A$0.84

A purchase the next evening at Panera Bread did not yield any DCC:

http://i.imgur.com/sm8WQ8Vt.jpg

One potential caveat here is that the above transaction didn't ask for a signature at all, likely owing to the < $25 amount. I should have added a pastry for $0.99 to meet the threshold required for a signature. :D

Finally, we made a purchase at a Napa winery on Monday without any hint of DCC either. There was no electronic signature pad, but the magstripe reader was integrated with the register. I was watching the touchscreen on the register like a hawk, and I saw no indication of DCC or a currency choice pop up.

In summary, we have only seen DCC in retail establishments, and it's been easy to circumvent in the two cases where it was present. Since the vast majority of big box retailers, department store, supermarkets, etc. have electronic signature pads, I assume that DCC isn't a big problem even when one encounters it in the US. More data points are needed, specifically for sit down restaurants and hotels. I think in the case of restaurants, DCC could be avoided by having the waitstaff void and rerun the transaction. Tipping culture is a good motivator here. :D

A more problematic case might be at hotels. Most hotels will swipe your card for an authorization hold and then discreetly slip the room bill under the door overnight on the day of departure. In contrast, at most hotels outside of North America there is the physical act of checking out where the reception will run your card for the full amount rather than in the background. This is good when overseas since I've been burned by DCC when using easy checkout procedures. Again, I think the customer service culture would prevail and allow for a DCC-free bill if the case arose. However, even in the case of a chargeback, you would win since Visa regulations require that you opt-in by marking accept on the written agreement.

While I recognize that I only have a sample size of two DCC cases, the markup was only 3% in both cases. Lately I've been seeing markups of at least 4% overseas and in some cases as much as 5%. If you have a card with a 2.5-3% currency exchange fee, a 3% DCC markup will more or less be a wash assuming you don't have rewards bonuses tied to foreign currency spending.

Would you say that DCC's gotten more common or less common compared to a year ago? (Of course, "more common" when there was barely any DCC before is relative.)

Since this was the first time I've had widespread use of a non-USD card in the US, I don't have a baseline. If I had to guess, I'd say things are the same as from when a number of the UK members saw it in Florida and NYC. I maintain at big box/franchised retailers with customer facing electronic signature pads that you'd have no problem opting out 100% of the time with 100% confidence. In cases where the terminal is not customer facing, I imagine the employee makes the selection without generating the quote slip. Again, this is pure speculation, but it should be easy to have the cashier void the transaction and start over.

If DCC functionality were as well behaved and predictable in the rest of the world as I've experienced in the US (or in similar setups abroad such as airport duty free), there probably wouldn't be a need for this thread. While neither transaction was compliant with Visa regulations, both were among the cleanest implementations that I've seen. There was no chance of a cashier running interference/being dishonest or a locked/difficult-to-disable terminal. There's no need to ask for a courtesy copy or worrying that your tick on a box on the receipt might not be honored. Finally, the 3% is far less egregious than what I've seen elsewhere.

That being said, DCC is still a scourge that I wish would disappear since undoubtedly the unsuspecting still press YES when given the option. However, those of us on this thread won't have to go apoplectic avoiding DCC in the US. :D

So I received Mexican pesos via PayPal and they're giving me the following choices:

1. Accept and convert to USD (at what appears to be $0.06542 per peso vs. $0.067 according to Google)
2. Accept and have as a separate currency balance alongside my USD balance
3. Reject the money and return it to sender

I think I should choose option 2 but is that going to affect my ability to withdraw into my US bank account at all?

tmiw: There's no use for the Pesos remaining as Pesos unless you plan to pay someone via Paypal in Pesos later.

But if you might have and there's no urgency, don't do the conversion now, you can always do it later.

I have a similar balance in USD (my primary balance in HKD) - a separate Paypal account in fact - but there's plenty of payments I can make in USD.

I wonder if this is what happens when the person paying refuses DCC so that PayPal gets its cut either way?

Perhaps. I checked my email this morning though and it looks like the MXN transfer was a mistake; PayPal still thought the person was in Mexico and was treating the transaction as such. They triggered another transaction in USD so I'm going to go ahead and reject this one.

Avoid DCC in AirBnb
 

I noticed AirBnb charges 3% DCC by default for foreign stays, and of course wanted to avoid it. Found this thread: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2203145

So tried it out and can report it worked with an Arrival+. YMMV due to the billing address matching to the country of currency.

Thanks newbie_flyer. I'm much more an airbnb guy than a hotel guy for my vacations. Thanks!

DCC is driving me nuts in the UAE. Didn't realize it was so pervasive here...

It's not avoidable? I thought while it was pervasive that it was more like Taiwan or Singapore. Were there any forced DCC situations?