The receipt in the middle was DCC. The receipt on the right was a y1 trial balloon in a (failed) attempt to defeat DCC.

The receipt on the left is a non-dcc receipt generated by a different pos machine.

The merchant is 新天地 paulaner. The manager semi-hates me because I told her (in Chinese) that she was dumber than a stone. That having been said, I did manage to get across the point that her establishment is stealing money from foreigners, and she is willing to pursue the heart of the matter.

The pertinent question is how did you defeat DCC? Once you've seen the "select TXN currency" on a receipt in Mainland China, you've already been screwed, right?

They used a pos machine that didn't support DCC.

I still have no clue how to defeat their other pos machines.

Drop me a line next time you're in Shanghai, and we can dive deeper.

Sure. My 中文 skills are 不好 though, so as another 美國 tourist I'd get taken to the DC cleaners without a local advocate. I'll come with a Discover and AmEx as backup.

Looks like travelex ATMs are the new norm in airports. I wonder how hard it is to opt out of DCC. I'm afraid touching the American flag on the first screen might not only produce English menus but also select DCC without any opportunity to "unselect" it.

Does anyone have any experience with those machines?

I used one in India. The DCC experience is actually one of the most transparent I've seen, offering you "CONTINUE WITHOUT CONVERSION" and "CONTINUE WITH CONVERSION" options. There's another screen trying to talk you into DCC if you hit to continue without, but it's also easily bypassable.

Don't use those machines.

Or just withdraw a bit to pay the cab. Do the big withdrawals downtown.

That being said, I have used Travelex ATMs a few times and I've found it easy to opt-out. Just keep selecting without conversion. As said before, you'll get a second screen asking if you want to confirm without conversion "BECAUSE zOMG U WON'T BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE EXCHANGE RATE!!!!!!" but ignore their emotional plea and continue without conversion anyway. :o

Discovered DCC in the UAE (Abu Dhabi) for the first time now.

It was at a restaurant, luckily I was there to enter the PIN. It was compliant (asking to pay in Dirham or my own currency) and it seems all is fine after I pressed Dirham, but it's yet another country which seems to be on the list where one has to be careful. At least no DCC spotted at ATMs there yet, but I guess it's just for the time being :(

The UAE has already been documented. I imagine it's route for DCC like HK and Macau due to the large foreign card presence from expat workers, tourists, and transit visitors.

I thought expat workers would have cards denominated in AED, as they can work and live there?

Not always easy to get a local cc. Differs by country but they don't want u charging it up and leaving the country. No guarantee u will pay them back.

I was also thinking about those who prefer the rewards on their home country cards. If your card doesn't have a foreign transaction fee, it wouldn't make any different about which card you used for the transaction assuming DCC wasn't a concern.

True but I've found it a lot easier to pay CCs in the currency I'm paid in.

Even if there is no foreign transaction fee, the CC companies make a good deal on the exchange rate applied. If you get paid (and mostly spend) in currency A, but your credit card runs in currency B, you're losing out twice.

In Canada and Singapore, I could get a credit card easily (on the same terms as the locals) as soon as I got my permanent residence (not entirely sure about the UAE, as I have not lived permanently there.)
(and for Singapore, even with only a FIN, I could get a credit card with local banks, though there was a higher income threshold than for citizens/permanent residents.)
(and even for Singapore, I have seen posts on hardwarezone about people doing exactly that.)

I've been working on ways to consolidate and share basic DCC info for all countries and am ready for some feedback what I've come up with. One solution I have is a map: https://goo.gl/U4cTWb The map is powered by a Google Sheet, which is helpful in and of itself: https://goo.gl/SevCMk

Couple of questions to prompt feedback: 1) Are these tools worthwhile? Early in this thread someone commented that it's heard to generalize DCC experiences and I agree, but I still think it's worthwhile to have a summary of DCC prevalence as a reference.
Maybe I'm wrong.

2) What about the terminology/criteria I'm using? I like some but not all of it. You should be able to comment directly on the sheet.

Finally, right now the data on the sheet and map were culled from this thread (which I haven't read 100% of) or my personal experience. Going forward I created a Google Form to streamline data collection.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Hello. Thanks for providing these tools. Yes, they're definitely worthwhile, but as you've pointed out it's difficult to generalize DCC transactions as no two countries or even terminals within a country are the same. I would say any DCC situation must be approached with caution, and I would disagree with a few of the posts on the sheet. For instance, I only saw DCC in Germany at hotels in Frankfurt. In Spain I would say DCC is difficult to avoid/reverse. In Hong Kong it is omnipresent and sometimes difficult to opt-out successfully.

So, I think you're on the right track in terms of categories. I think it largely boils down to: 1) Prevalence of DCC, 2) Compliance of Visa/MC DCC policies (I don't think any country is truly this way), 3) Ability to opt-out, 4) Ability to reverse transactions/cashiers trying to 'force' DCC.

1) Extreme examples on the scale would be China vs. Japan
2) China/Hong Kong/Poland (no option given) vs. Singapore/Thailand (quote slip given)
3) China/India (some terminals are locked down) vs. Taiwan/Singapore/US/Thailand (easy to opt-out if you're in the know)
4) India/Poland/China (to the point where it feels like cashiers are on the take) vs. most other places

I have another example of forced DCC:

Went to get my tax-free refund at CPH at the Global Blue desk, which does refunds only by credit card. My refund was 17 EUR, they took my card and handed me a receipt saying I would be credited 17 EUR to my credit card.

Today, the refund shows up, but in CAD and not in EUR. (It is a 0% conversion Visa card), and the rate is a solid 7% worse than the rate I would have gotten with my card. At no point was I ever asked if I wanted my refund in EUR or CAD, Global Blue just did the conversion at their craptastic rates.

As if Global Blue wasn't making enough on their 50%+ cut of my tax refund, they also skimmed more off of my refund by using forced DCC. :mad:

Global Blue is so bad I'd rather just pay the tax and have it go to the country I enjoyed rather than go through a huge hassle to get less than half the tax and let them take most of the tax...

This is not so much DCC but Global Blue taking maximum advantage of multi-currency processing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=6982&p=3 #21

Hotels.com and Agoda does this too - but since they are selling not refunding they don't levy a fee.

But still better than taking cash - I've a mate who's taken cash refund in UK and left his card detail as deposit. Global Blue claimed he did not submit stamped docs in UK within the required 21 days and fined him gbp 40. His refund was only half that. He charged back (he photoed his stamped docs) but bank refused chargeback in the first instance, he's escalating the complaint.

When buying in EU I tend to think the refund is a contingent asset I may or may not get and discount the refund accordingly. Ah I better copy this post to my wife - we're there in a fortnight.

No DCC so far experienced in Malta.. which is kinda surprising..

We bumped into the same thing in Europe this summer, though I forgot to check the rate exactly. I made sure to give them my multi-currency ICBC card for the refund so I'd get EUR back and I ended up getting it in USD. A little over 600EUR became 680USD.

This is why my family prefers tax-free shopping in Japan; the tax is taken off at the store, and all you have to do is drop off the slip at Customs when you leave.

The mate visits Japan a lot more than EU and said as much.

This scam is so annoying it hurts. Traveling throughout Europe I was constantly offered the option for DCC. Just for laughs I would always as the server or front desk what they suggested and they almost always suggested I use my local US currency or said it didn't matter. I then explained to them that it does matter... and what they are saying is untrue. One nice waitress sat with me while we checked the conversion rates and when she saw the difference she was aghast. She said she'd never again offer it to any customers. Such a scam and so many people are unaware. This should be illegal.

That's very nice. Here in Asia most wait staff just do what their employers want to do as opposed to the right thing by their customers, especially visitors when the customers aren't likely to be repeat customers.

I have never felt that DCC was encouraged in Asia rather that it was impossible to opt out under some circumstances.

"Impossible to opt out" is a subset of "encourage".

I have actually never seen a pos machine, in which opting out is truly impossible, but figuring out the opt out can waste a lot of time.

What is painful is seeing how many people fall for the DCC scam. People see their home currency and think they're getting a deal. I've seen quite a few people selecting DCC for ATM withdrawals at UK airports, where the rates built in a 12% markup, no better than exchanging money at the bureaux de change counter at the airport!

Is that covered by their best rate guarantee?

That's the thing, the MAJORITY of customers want DCC, even when they know the exchange rate markup, I think most people are indifferent - they'll try to opt-out if possible (usually) if they know the difference, but they don't really care much.

That's how DCC survives. There's no real alternative. Amex, but they have very few FTF-free cards. Discover can stop DCC, but as I learned it can also result in FORCED DCC.

That's not true anymore... Amex has been removing fts from many of its cards now. Starwood Amex, Delta Amex and Premier Rewards Gold Amex no longer have ftfs.

The funny thing is. In the UK all of the Amex issued cards have a forex fee. Almost non of the Amex cards issued by third party banks in the UK do.

I thought Discover was immune to the DCC disease?

I'm uncertain if a majority of customers want DCC when they're aware of the markup, especially if they have a 0% FTF card. I think the scam continues because people end up paying for their ignorance. They first pay by not using a 0% FTF card and pay again when being corralled toward DCC. I got ripped off multiple times on my first trip (and subsequent trips) to Spain simply because I was ignorant of what it was. I remember asking the waitress in Spanish why I was seeing USD on the receipt and her reply was something to the effect of, "It's only for your information." I fell for it at the time, and it was only after visiting the fine city of Macau with a fixed exchange rate to HKD (and my association USD) how much I was getting ripped off. :mad::mad::mad:

I will not prevent people from paying for their ignorance (although I try to coach), but at least give those in the know a way to opt out.

For stateside issued cards, AmEx has become a viable option to prevent DCC, but we've determined informally on this thread that the exchange rates aren't as favorable as a 0% Visa/MC if you're converting from a currency without a fixed exchange rate. For example, with a USD-denominated card you're okay to use AmEx in HK or China since the exchange rate is fixed for HK or a narrow band for China. In fact, my wife mandated I use AmEx after an upscale dinner in Hong Kong one night to avoid a scene when the bill came. :D

I thought so too, until I found out that not only does PayPal DCC Discover, it's forced DCC. Apparently Discover allows them to offer DCC without an opt-out option.

In fairness, the staff member processing your payment often doesn't have a clue what's going on. This is probably especially true of restaurant staff (collecting your payment is only a small part of what they do).

Is PayPal the only case of DCC with Discover?

My assumption is that most staff members are clueless when it comes to DCC. A proprietor might have more of an idea of what's going on, but I imagine the cashiers largely don't know how bad of a deal it is.

I forgot to include the form before: http://goo.gl/forms/u1WjMjhDRa Please use this to submit new information. Agreed. Updated.

Adding compliance info is tricky, but I've added a related question to the form.

Do we have any datapoints for Latin America (other than Mexico), Africa (other than Zimbabwe), the Caribbean or Pacific Islands? If so, please use the form above to submit. Thanks.