Yep. I've linked to both the Visa and MasterCard chargeback manuals in the wiki for this thread under the heading "I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?"

That's my hope too. I do think they will take notice after enough people are calling in with the same complaint. The best satisfaction, however, is still sticking an unscrupulous merchant with the paperwork of a chargeback for forcing DCC upon you. I think they'd learn faster than a large issuer.

Personally, I think the hopes expressed here are in vain. Too many people, as a matter of fact the majority of Americans (not FTers) are very very naive about travel and a whole lot that goes with it. After all our country is so big that you can travel thousands of miles and still be in the USA. So many are shocked that at their first stop say in Europe or even in Canada, people don't want US dollars (well many Canadians do but that's another story) and all the other horror stores. How daare they use euro? And when the merchant says the price is €7.37 but that's equivalent to $10.76 and I will write the charge up for $10.76 so you'll know just how much it costs, the naive American jumps at it and says, would you do that. Or if the person understands that nobody usually gives you something for nothing, you are told trust me it's a better rte than the bank will give you. Naive American believes it.

I'll give you an analogy. It was 43 years ago during my first visit to Italy. I went to a newstand to pick up the Herald Tribune. It cost 180 Italian Lire. I handed over 2 100 lira coins and was given 2 pieces of bubble gum. Boy how nice these people are, I thought. You buy a newspapers and they give you a gift. Then it suddently dawned on me. Where was my 20 lire? I asked and the person pointed at the bubble gum.

You live and learn.

20 days ago I ran up a 720,000 dong taxi bill in Danang to eat at the InterContinental Sun Peninsula. I paid 500,000d on the way there. I didn't have the change and my Missus was running to our own hotel's reception after we we dropped off. I figured why bother and gave the guy another 500,000 dong bill inside the car (no lights). He gave me two bills and sped off.

I thought one was a 200,000 dong and another 100,000 dong . Of course not...when I trying to pay the next cabbie I realised I only got two 20,000d notes...I've been shortchanged 240,000 dong .

I started breaking big notes (you only get big notes at bank ATMs) like a crazed maniac and started exact changing all cabbies thereafter.

(This is on top of a Vietnam cabbie in our first trip who had a 145,000 dong (US$7) per 200m meter which we flagged off the street in 2008...we've been having hotel doormen and restaurants flag us cabs ever since).

DCC isn't something that affects only US cards. It affects a UK issued card in Ireland or euro area issued card in Poland or HK issued card in China. I have no problem with people paying dearly for their ignorance. If you don't know what the EUR/USD exchange rate is and get duped into accepting DCC plus use your 3% FTF card, it's your own fault. Getting shortchanged in a taxi? Again, it's not limited to Americans, but it is your own fault.

Nobody likes to feel cheated, even if the person allowed himself to get cheated. Creating a similar mentality for the naive travelers will go a long way to help our cause. I've educated a few people in this category asking how they felt paying a total of 5-8% more for their items when using a card than I did (FTF + DCC). I then educate them on which 0% FTF cards are available and then how to avoid DCC. People aren't mad about the small amount, but they're upset because they feel like the merchant pulled a fast one on them.

In the future you better believe they'll be hypervigilant about making sure they're charged in local currency just like you now make sure you get proper change or that the meter is displaying the correct tariff.

I'll stick with Americans because I know how naive so many are (I don't mean to exclude any travellers from that category) but believe me, many many if not most don't have a clue about these things. Can't comprehend why they don't take dollars (or have it hammered into their heads the dollar is king) or think when they see the rate on the windows of a cash exchange that the $/€ rate is $1.50 = €1 that is the "official" rate when in reality the interbank rate is $1.35 = €1 and so when in a dcc transaction even if they suspect something isn't right (rarely) and the merchant tells them the rate being used is $1.45 = €1, they are getting a great rate (of course many are stupid enough to use cas they acquire at home or exchange places and not use credit cards). Look at how many continue to use credit cards with foreign transaction fees when there are many free cards available without this fee. Again I am talking about Americans hwere because they are the people I have the most contact with. I'm not exluding other nationalities from this stupidity or the suseptibility to being ripped off.

But it is probably more likely to occur with Americans because of all the brainwashing that goes on.

Brainwashing that a Travelex rate is good? :confused: I don't understand your American bashing here, and I don't think it's appropriate for this forum. Even in the days before I discovered FlyerTalk, I was a super naive traveler, but I still knew that the currency exchange desks at the airports offered a bad rate and that different countries used different currencies. My fellow naive travelers all seemed to know the same thing. The only thing that seemed to get a lot of people was the voltage difference. However, I know for a fact this goes both ways. Just because you get a plug adapter doesn't mean it's a transformer. And just because you get a transformer doesn't mean it converts 50 Hz to 60 Hz. :D

DCC is a scourge that can hit anybody anywhere, and I'd say it's far more likely to hit non-Americans in most parts of the world. Think about the number of people doing transactions in Ireland from the UK or in Poland from Germany and vice versa. The same goes for having a card without FTF. I don't think any nationality is any more or less travel naive than the next when it comes to these topics, and the best we can do is educate rather than engage in bashing a certain group.

Majuki...it wasn't meant as bashing. From the first day I started travelling after getting out of college, I have seen this naivity. In 1967, I attended expo 67 in Montreal and there were signs reminding patrons that post cards mailed in Canada needed Canadian postage stamps. I have been to bull fights in Madrid where they handed out seat cushions and seen more than one American try to pay for it with dollar bills, I have been to boutiques in Paris where somebody was told something cost 400 francs and she asked how much is that in real money, just two weeks ago, on a shore excursion from my cruise in Germany, we stopped at a rest stop onthe autobahn and the person behind me tried to pay with US dollar bills. It's not bashing anybody, it's the sad truth of how naive so many Americans, unfortunately, are when it comes to travel. Is it exclusive. No. However, years ago, pre euro, a Dutch person, just as an example, would travel an hour or two and would be in Germany and would know once he or she left the immediate border area between the countries, that marks were needed not guilders.

It is not meant to bash anybody. It is a function of the size of the country and yes, to a degree, some brainwashing that the dollar is king, that everybody wants dollars yada yada yada. Would a resident of the UK come to NYC and expect to be able to use sterling. Perhaps a very few but I doubt not nearly as many.

It was simply a point I was trying to make. No need to get all excited about it.

I understand your point, and believe me I am in the same shoes with you and I hate how this country runs DCC. But also believe me, you don't wanna ruin your vacation. DCC is so prevalent, and cashiers are so under-educated (I mean really, literally, not with high school diplomas often), just try arguing with them about the dollar amount shown on your slip, and you will end up doing that every time you use your card, and MAN you will be mad.

So maybe defacing all the slips, saving them, and dispute them altogether after returning would be a better idea.

My personal feeling is that using CC in China is a hassle itself. I am working in this country on a long term base, so I really miss how I use my CC in the US. It's easier than cash, NOT in this country...

We in HK can use Unionpay, skip the DCC headaches and get wider acceptance. But it feels like I've prostituted myself to the Nazis.

No one here now thinks of Visa as American Imperialism...rather as an honest alternative gone the wrong way.

I'm pragmatic about things like this, and I know when to pick my fights. It's not ruining my trip by any means, and my wife knows how much I dislike DCC. I tend to use cash for smaller purchases, so the places where we would encounter DCC would be hotels, department stores, and upscale restaurants. I expect to encounter DCC at every turn, and I will attempt to decline it every time. I will take photos, deface receipts, and refuse to sign in cases where it is forced.

I have to wonder if generation has to do something with it. Are Baby Boomer American travelers more naive about travel versus Millennial American travelers?

I think this is true. I believe you and I are about the same age (I'm 31), and I know a lot of people our age with a similar mentality. We are always interested in having the most amount of information possible and getting the best deal. Contrast this with my parents (Baby Boomers) who do little to optimize given situations. I've tried to help them with their credit card portfolio, getting Global Entry, using T-Mobile to get international data, etc. but they don't seem interested. You and I would be far more likely to consult with wikitravel before going to a new place, look up the currency and some basic information, find out the exchange rate, and use our 0% ATM cards to get cash and 0% FTF EMV credit cards (avoiding DCC the whole way, of course :D).

You avoid DCC hassle with the price of 0.3%-0.5% loss in rate, but this looks like a economically safer route, considering DCC mark-up is usually 5%...

^

You're probably right. And look at today's younger people every one of which walks around today with a smartphone and will readilly pick up things like mobile payments. My mom, may she rest in peace, passed away about 6 years ago and could never deal with things like cell phones or even could hardly bring herself to call me because after all she lived in Florida and I lived in NY and well you know how expensive long distance calls are or even deal with 10 digit dialing when they split her area code.

Perhaps things will indeed change in the future with a much more technologically savy population!

I used to change my phone number when I moved, but I quit doing that in 2008. I still have a 408 (San Jose) area code even though I lived in Pittsburgh and now Philadelphia for the last three years. I will be heading back to the Bay Area this fall, so I'll be right back at home with the area code. :D

Who knows? Maybe DCC will eventually become a moot point when we're all doing mobile payments in cryptocurrencies.