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Originally Posted by kebosabi
(Post 23100272)
I suggest the smarter thing to do would be to create a downloadable fax template link onto the wiki so that anyone could use it to semi-automate the process.
The reason why majority of the people don't bother doing it is because what you stated: "it's only few cents and I have to bother with them on the phone for 30 minutes." I admire the principle of your not giving in, but let's face it, most people aren't going to spend 30 minutes on the phone with a clueless CSR who doesn't understand jack about DCC to resolve 10 cents. Since you're a Millennial as myself, I'm hoping that you'd understand the natural vibe we all have in our generation: "there is always a better, more efficient way to do this using technology at hand today." It is a futile attempt to convince people to dispute 10 cents or whatever on the phone for 30 minutes. Some people are extroverts, some are introverts. The next best thing to do then, is to make it easier to file a DCC dispute so we don't have to deal with irritated customers behind us through the language barrier or wasting our time on the phone with CSRs. And that can be done by semi-automating it with a downloadable fax template (I suggest Google Docs as I did) and post a link to the wiki, so that all it takes is less than a minute of filling in that sheet and faxing it in to your bank (suggest internet fax like faxzero or whatever), more people will start doing it. And the stack of faxes start piling up at the banks so they also start to visually see what a problem this is. Make it easier to file a DCC dispute for us, let the banks deal with the problem. We shouldn't be put into the position of dealing with the hassle of speaking to a clueless CSR in the first place. Before creating a template, we need to what fields should be placed into that template: 1. Your name 2. Your address 3. Your account number 4. Date of transaction 5. Where transaction took place 6. Amount in dispute 7. scanned/smartphone camera copy of receipt 8. anything else? A list of customer service fax numbers to big name banks which majority of the people tend to use (BofA, Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo, etc.) would also help. |
Originally Posted by rgAAFT
(Post 23100567)
Your idea is a good one, why don't you help us make it a reality?
As it stands today, the DCC scam for me is that I probably have been DCCed in the past in places like India or Europe, but that was over 3-4 years ago, I wasn't aware of this DCC scam back then, and the receipts have been shredded long ago and it's probably in a landfill somewhere by now. Had I known about this DCC scam way back then, I would've complained and gained the experience to help you guys out on creating an easier template (and know what info is relevant). But my travel patterns has changed since 3-4 years ago. Most of my travels now are mainly to Japan which fortunately, do not use DCC (apart from Amazon Japan which I can avoid easily by not clicking on choosing to be charged in USD) so I don't really experience these DCC issues today. Bluntly, I haven't been DCCed in recent times yet (most likely have been DCCed in the past which I didn't pay much attention to back then) and therefore haven't filed any dispute about it, therefore I have no experience in filing a dispute or what info is relevant to do so So I'd think those who frequent here where the issue seems to be happening more in Europe and mainland China, I'm sure they'll understand the hassles of filing a DCC dispute better than I do, so they have a better idea of what info fields are relevant versus someone like me who hasn't been DCCed or ever filed a dispute yet. |
Originally Posted by kebosabi
(Post 23100762)
I'd love to help out, but unfortunately, I don't have experience in filing a DCC complaint so I wouldn't know what relevant fields are necessary to file a complaint. Hence my questions whether those 8 fields are enough or if I missed anything else that might be relevant.
As it stands today, the DCC scam for me is that I probably have been DCCed in the past in places like India or Europe, but that was over 3-4 years ago, I wasn't aware of this DCC scam back then, and the receipts have been shredded long ago and it's probably in a landfill somewhere by now. Had I known about this DCC scam way back then, I would've complained and gained the experience to help you guys out on creating an easier template (and know what info is relevant). But my travel patterns has changed since 3-4 years ago. Most of my travels now are mainly to Japan which fortunately, do not use DCC (apart from Amazon Japan which I can avoid easily by not clicking on choosing to be charged in USD) so I don't really experience these DCC issues today. Bluntly, I haven't been DCCed in recent times yet (most likely have been DCCed in the past which I didn't pay much attention to back then) and therefore haven't filed any dispute about it, therefore I have no experience in filing a dispute or what info is relevant to do so So I'd think those who frequent here where the issue seems to be happening more in Europe and mainland China, I'm sure they'll understand the hassles of filing a DCC dispute better than I do, so they have a better idea of what info fields are relevant versus someone like me who hasn't been DCCed or ever filed a dispute yet. Example My native country is Russia and therefore I don't tend to get dcced or else I could easily tell people to 're charge me if ever I had that issue there You have to remember that most low level store clerks tend to believe that they are doing a customer a "favor" by billing people directly in their home currency for "convenience" sake with little regard for the bad conversion rate |
Saw non-compliant DCC today as Isaac's Hostel in Dublin. Not too bad as the choice was in the cardholder's hands (and expecting worse I'd already asked for Euro when inserting my card). Instead of asking me to choose an amount it said:
Amount US Dollar $24.xx (I forgot the exact amount) No / Yes Thus it didn't present a choice of currency it instead asked if the amount was okay. Which doesn't imply a choice. Hitting no put it through in euro with a DCC-free signature slip and final slip. Not too awful but easy to slip up since it isn't an active choice. |
Likewise, I haven't been forcibly hit with DCC since I became aware of it a few years ago. I haven't yet filed a dispute with Chase because the one time I got hit with DCC at the Frankfurt Marriott in March 2013, I complained to the hotel's general manager who compensated a more valuable amount of Marriott Rewards points. I wasn't as vigilant then - you could call me DCC naive - and I thought DCC was opt-in or at the very least something where the merchant gave a transparent choice.
The only other time I got hit with DCC was July 2011 at the Venetian Macau. Again, I wasn't aware enough to know I had been hit, and it was a live and learn situation. I didn't think I had recourse at the time. If the same thing were to happen to me today I would deface the receipt and dispute the charge. I am proactive about specifying local currency up front, and not buying the lies of "Oh, that rate is just for your convenience." or thinking that the check box will be respected in China, Macau, or Hong Kong. (If you see the check box there, you've been screwed already.) I think we can help each other out by editing the wiki with country-specific information and advice on how to disable DCC on various payment terminals. |
Originally Posted by rgAAFT
(Post 23101232)
Japan probably has a DCC scam of some sort going on but my guess is you speak Japanese and therefore you don't experience DCC
And the only website that I come across where Japanese acquirers provide DCC is for online businesses (which the example screenshot looks a lot like Amazon Japan) http://www.globalpayment.co.jp/service/service_d.php For the most part, I think as of today, DCC doesn't happen in Japan unless one buys from Amazon Japan. And at least Amazon Japan gives you an option to choose to pay in JPY or home currency, so that's avoidable. Of course I could be wrong and maybe American anime fans visiting Akihabara and splurging on otaku related items are getting ripped off by DCC scams. :p But so far, this thread has shown examples mainly occuring in Europe and mainland China. Does anyone have a Japanese credit card receipt showing DCC in action in Japan? That would spark my interest in myself as well to be on the lookout when I go there. |
Originally Posted by kebosabi
(Post 23101368)
Of course I could be wrong and maybe American anime fans visiting Akihabara and splurging on otaku related items are getting ripped off by DCC scams. :p
But so far, this thread has shown examples mainly occuring in Europe and mainland China. Does anyone have a Japanese credit card receipt showing DCC in action in Japan? That would spark my interest in myself as well to be on the lookout when I go there. |
Originally Posted by jamar
(Post 23101507)
I shop in the back streets of Akiba every now and then and have yet to encounter DCC. There's never any question- insert/swipe card, wait, slip prints out, always in yen.
As an additional side point, if one can read Japanese, even that Japanese acquirer for online businesses that I posted above doesn't really state any benefit to merchants; it only says "it'll be a service to your customers who would like to see the amount in their home currency without currency fluctuations. By providing this service, foreigners will more likely shop at your place than your competitors!" Nothing about "businesses earn additional revenue from conversion fees" is noted in that Japanese acquirer website, which is what other countries' acquirers use to market pitch DCCs to merchants. (i.e. FirstData's DCC sales pitch to US merchants) Either Japanese online business acquirers are trying to pocket the difference by collecting the currency fees for themselves or, Japanese online business acquirers themselves don't know what DCC is yet or haven't really looked into what it really does to market it that way to benefit Japanese merchants. The American skeptic in me would say the former. Yet the Japanese in me wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter. I'd even say this as an American of Japanese descent - the Japanese people are really bad at marketing. They make great products, they suck at marketing. :D |
I think that the prevalence of JCB makes DCC not worthwhile in Japan. Furthermore, Japan is a by-the-book culture, so you know that DCC would always be presented as a choice if it were enabled. For instance, I remember a cashier at a department store explaining the return policy to me - I had to go get one of my Japanese classmates to translate - because the department store policy was to inform customers. It was obvious that I didn't understand. How many other places in the world would a cashier bother to do something like that?
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Originally Posted by moondog
(Post 23099583)
I bank with Schwab because they are generally awesome (though OT, they have attempted to send my new debit card TWICE to my Nanning office via USPS, in spite of my advice to the contrary; FedEx is now in the works).
I brought the issue at hand to THEIR attention shortly after I left the hotel because I knew that DCC was in the works. Schwab asked me to wait 3 days until the charge posted. I did, it was 3.1% higher than what had been initially approved, and I contested it.
Originally Posted by jamar
(Post 23100084)
上海交通大学, not a language school (would ICBC even agree to do that with a language school? Supposedly it was that studying at a big name school guarantees a certain measure of future income so they agreed to it). I did fine for the first couple years but engineering classes in Chinese were too much for me do I ended up returning to the US.
Actually the 语言学院 I mentioned isn't some sort of local language school. It is quite famous now. It is located in 五道口 in Beijing, Haidian. It's like that the area with a 10-mile radius from the 语言学院 is a special economic zone, because the school is so popular among international students. |
Originally Posted by Majuki
(Post 23102203)
I think that the prevalence of JCB makes DCC not worthwhile in Japan.
Originally Posted by Majuki
(Post 23102203)
Furthermore, Japan is a by-the-book culture, so you know that DCC would always be presented as a choice if it were enabled.
But I doubt as in any other country, the cashier would be trained and understand that it'll cost more to charge in home currency than in JPY. So by the book they will explain it, but probably to only お客様、日本円とドル、決済はどちらがいいでしょうか？ (Sir, madam, would you like to be charged in JPY or USD?) and will offer a choice, but that's about it. They'll not go into the detail about DCC which they have no understanding of. |
Originally Posted by zyxlsy
(Post 23102546)
Have they initiated the chargeback, or you are still in the 3-day waiting period?
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Originally Posted by kebosabi
(Post 23102553)
But I doubt as in any other country, the cashier would be trained and understand that it'll cost more to charge in home currency than in JPY. So by the book they will explain it, but probably to only お客様、日本円とドル、決済はどちらがいいでしょうか？ (Sir, madam, would you like to be charged in JPY or USD?) and will offer a choice, but that's about it. They'll not go into the detail about DCC which they have no understanding of.
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Originally Posted by moondog
(Post 23102717)
Yes. The amount in dispute has been credited back to me (for now). I was actually planning on staying at the GTA-Sea World again next week, but they have ignored my reservation request, so I fear that I've been written off as an annoying customer.
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Originally Posted by moondog
(Post 23102717)
Yes. The amount in dispute has been credited back to me (for now). I was actually planning on staying at the GTA-Sea World again next week, but they have ignored my reservation request, so I fear that I've been written off as an annoying customer.
Back then China had 涉外酒店. Now it has been relaxed. |
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