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-   -   Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1542983-dynamic-currency-conversion-dcc-2014-2016-a.html)

reclusive46 Jun 16, 2014 1:06 pm


Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR (Post 23041861)
I will orf course be disputing the charge when I come home and hope the bank has the good sense to charge it back to this scum of a merchant. This spreading cancer must be stopped in its tracks and I will not allow myself to be treated like a sucker in this manner. However, most likely the bank will just credit me the 40 or so cents and not charge it back and penalize the piece of garbage merchant.

You could dispute the entire transaction, the no signature limit doesn't apply to DCC transactions. I don't think the Easy Payment service applies to Germany either.

Majuki Jun 16, 2014 4:53 pm


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 23041613)
Is it fee-free for out-of-country-and-out-of-network debit cards as well? Namely Union-Pay debit cards issues in China.

Last time I visited a 7-11 in Irvine, I think the machine is Citi's, and it did charge the $3.

About this Allpoint, it seems really nice. But what the point of offering fee-free ATMs? How does it earn money, and who does it get money from?

I guess it's only for US-issued cards. :( I know some credit unions have no surcharge ATMs, but I don't know about accepting a UnionPay card.

Majuki Jun 16, 2014 5:01 pm


Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR (Post 23041861)
I was the victim of dcc during my shore excursion from Rostock to Berlin. We stopped at a service area on the autobahn and I purchased about 7 euro worth of stuff. The dragon lady type clerk, surely East German type, had the credit card terminal not on the counter, dipped my card, did not ask me to sign and handed me a receipt. It was only when I got on the coach that I realized I had been ripped off with the statement I was offered the opportunity to pay in local currency. It must have cost me about 40 or so cents.

Yes, definitely dispute the transaction. If this is a Visa, you should ask for a Reason Code 76 Chargeback. I should add these to the wiki while I'm thinking about it... :D

cxua Jun 17, 2014 5:22 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23039544)
You mean you were given a receipt for USD, but you were eventually charged HKD? I'd like to see that slip, can you upload it (redact name and card number)? Thanks

I just looked at my receipt once more. The copy I got was actually the HKD amount without the choices boxes. It was only the merchant slip I needed to sign that had the USD HKD choices. I guess when I checked the X on HKD, the clerk must have then selected something and charged me in local currency. (HKD local currency in a USD issued card)

I setup email notifications on all transactions and it showed the USD amount. I guess that was a preauthorisation only.

If you still want to see my slip I can try to upload it after I blur a couple of PII out.

percysmith Jun 17, 2014 5:24 am


Originally Posted by cxua (Post 23047516)
I just looked at my receipt once more. The copy I got was actually the HKD amount without the choices boxes. It was only the merchant slip I needed to sign that had the USD HKD choices. I guess when I checked the X on HKD, the clerk must have then selected something and charged me in local currency. (HKD local currency in a USD issued card)

I setup email notifications on all transactions and it showed the USD amount. I guess that was a preauthorisation only.

If you still want to see my slip I can try to upload it after I blur a couple of PII out.

That receipt is safe then. A selection must have been made by GAP cashier to decline DCC before printing the HKD-only slip out.

zyxlsy Jun 17, 2014 7:33 am


Originally Posted by cxua (Post 23047516)
I just looked at my receipt once more. The copy I got was actually the HKD amount without the choices boxes. It was only the merchant slip I needed to sign that had the USD HKD choices. I guess when I checked the X on HKD, the clerk must have then selected something and charged me in local currency. (HKD local currency in a USD issued card)

I setup email notifications on all transactions and it showed the USD amount. I guess that was a preauthorisation only.

If you still want to see my slip I can try to upload it after I blur a couple of PII out.

That's something I got. It's like you first sign and tick on the merchant piece, and you get your piece with only HKD on it.

jamar Jun 17, 2014 10:02 am

Something similar just happened to me in Shenzhen a few hours ago at a Novotel. They've got an HSBC terminal, so I was a bit worried at first when the DCC slip printed out. Then the terminal prompted "PAY: 1. CNY 2. USD". The person at the desk pushed 2 before I could do anything, so I asked them to void and re-do it, this time reaching over and pushing 1 myself.

The person at the desk was under the impression that all that did was re-print the slip. It does, but without the DCC. If you let it sit there (the terminal flashes "Auto opt-in" for a bit) or push 2, it doesn't print another slip, leaving you with the DCC slip.

Slips for comparison.

I never thought HSBC would actually let people opt out of DCC without doing anything counter-intuitive, but there they are. Better than BOC.

zyxlsy Jun 17, 2014 7:36 pm


Originally Posted by jamar (Post 23048838)
Something similar just happened to me in Shenzhen a few hours ago at a Novotel. They've got an HSBC terminal, so I was a bit worried at first when the DCC slip printed out. Then the terminal prompted "PAY: 1. CNY 2. USD". The person at the desk pushed 2 before I could do anything, so I asked them to void and re-do it, this time reaching over and pushing 1 myself.

The person at the desk was under the impression that all that did was re-print the slip. It does, but without the DCC. If you let it sit there (the terminal flashes "Auto opt-in" for a bit) or push 2, it doesn't print another slip, leaving you with the DCC slip.

Slips for comparison.

I never thought HSBC would actually let people opt out of DCC without doing anything counter-intuitive, but there they are. Better than BOC.

The picture shows the "first slip" of the voided transaction and the "second flip" of the right transaction, right? I'm guessing you have another "first slip" with batch no. 000294 and ref. 014800.

This terminal is a lot more compliant than BoC's and BoComm's IMO. At least it says something that makes sense regarding DCC.

My experience with DCC in China is that, if your slips says anything about "given the choices of currency, blah blah blah", you are DCCed already. The DCC-free slips always have 1) the total amount denominated in CNY, 2) no USD amount shown in any form, and 3) no reference to the term DCC at the bottom. Having only the first statement as true doesn't guarantee anything, as CCB machines will show CNY amount, and display a "DCC Accepted" box which is un-ticked, but it's DCCed already.

GuyGadois Jun 19, 2014 6:36 am

Don't worry too much
 
On several occasions this has been tried on me. I've got a charge back a couple of times.
My plan in the future is to simply sign every receipt - Transaction approved in local currency only
I won't argue, I will simply go home and seek a chargeback;)

zyxlsy Jun 19, 2014 7:30 am


Originally Posted by GuyGadois (Post 23060604)
On several occasions this has been tried on me. I've got a charge back a couple of times.
My plan in the future is to simply sign every receipt - Transaction approved in local currency only
I won't argue, I will simply go home and seek a chargeback;)

Which bank do you use? Is it easy to request a chargeback?

Majuki Jun 19, 2014 9:37 am


Originally Posted by GuyGadois (Post 23060604)
On several occasions this has been tried on me. I've got a charge back a couple of times.
My plan in the future is to simply sign every receipt - Transaction approved in local currency only
I won't argue, I will simply go home and seek a chargeback;)

Do you specify that you want to be charged in local currency from the beginning of the transaction? Most of us here try to pull out all the stops to prevent DCC from occurring at the point of sale. Only when everything fails with the merchant do we initiative the chargeback. Finally, what are the implications of signing the receipt as "Local currency only" vs. providing your signature and writing "local option not offered" elsewhere on the receipt while crossing out the DCC amount?

AllieKat Jun 19, 2014 12:52 pm

I do wonder how common DCC actually is. I've been in London for two days and I've had three Visa transactions where Amex wasn't accepted. Haven't even been offered DCC yet.

AA_EXP09 Jun 19, 2014 7:03 pm


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 23062803)
I do wonder how common DCC actually is. I've been in London for two days and I've had three Visa transactions where Amex wasn't accepted. Haven't even been offered DCC yet.

Not very common in the UK based on my experiences there.
In some places they have also tried to surcharge for CC use so I have some £ ready whenever I am there.

Majuki Jun 19, 2014 10:32 pm


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 23062803)
I do wonder how common DCC actually is. I've been in London for two days and I've had three Visa transactions where Amex wasn't accepted. Haven't even been offered DCC yet.

It highly depends on the country. The worst offenders universally seem to be department stores and duty free shops. International hotel chains commonly impose DCC in certain geographies but not in others. In places where DCC has spread like the plague (Mainland China), expect to find it at every corner. I've heard through others it's nearly as bad in Ireland and Poland.

Some hotels in the UK (Marriott) will DCC you and claim there is no way around it. I have never used anything but an AmEx in the UK for hotels, so I haven't encountered DCC. It will also happen at upscale department stores such as Harrods, but you can specify pound sterling in advance and avoid DCC. Back in late 2011 I remember charging a bunch of things on a Chase Visa and not seeing any DCC charges. I charged at: SIM card vending machine at LHR, Heathrow Express, Kensington Palace, Wagamama Tower of London, London Eye, Sainsbury's, Tower of London, Hiba Express, St Paul's Cathedral, McDonald's, and Harrods at LHR x 2. That trip we stayed at the Grosvenor House on points, so I wasn't able to test DCC at a Marriott property.

In February my wife, a friend, and I were in Barcelona, and he got hit with DCC at a souvenir shop near Parc Güell. Hotel Arts made mention of DCC on its receipt but I watched what I was signing at check-in as well as upon departure like a hawk and made sure that the bill was in euros instead of USD. El Corte Inglés also supposedly uses DCC, but they can disable it if you ask them to want to pay in euros. I didn't buy anything from ECI this trip, so no data points there.

In March 2013 I spent about 30 days in a combination of Germany, Austria, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic. I made many purchases at restaurants and hotels, and I was only unwillingly hit with DCC at the Frankfurt Marriott. I sent a complaint to the general manager who more than made up for it with a equivalent amount of Marriott Rewards points. ^ I've heard that Starwood properties in Germany are also notorious for DCC, but I only stayed at the Sheraton at FRA and paid in a combination of euros and my AmEx. (I don't like using my Chase Marriott card at Starwood properties. :D)

In the seven trips to Australia over the last four years I've only seen DCC at a coffee shop in a mall in Brisbane and at the duty free store at the Brisbane airport. This is across multiple hotels, restaurants, fast food chains, supermarkets, convenience stores, tickets for tourist attractions, etc.

In Taiwan, HK, and Macau DCC is relatively common, but in most cases it's easy to avoid. I was unwillingly hit with DCC at the Venetian Macau, but I was able to opt out of DCC elsewhere. In Taiwan you'll usually see DCC at hotels and department stores, but they will always give you an option. In HK and Macau you need to specify more proactively or you will get ripped off. I've heard Singapore and Thailand mirror the experience in Taiwan, but I have yet to visit either country. I didn't see any signs of DCC in Japan, but I have few data points as it's mostly a cash economy.

I have not yet visited Ireland, Poland, or Mainland China, but these seem to be the worst offenders. In Ireland and Poland even small purchases like Burger King or cafes will hit you with DCC. Since the purchase amount is so small, you'll fall victim to DCC without even being able to deface a receipt or say "local option not offered". China is by far the worst with lots of non-compliant POS terminals and DCC at every turn.

BadgerBoi Jun 19, 2014 10:35 pm


Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 (Post 23064647)
Not very common in the UK based on my experiences there.
In some places they have also tried to surcharge for CC use so I have some £ ready whenever I am there.

Is a CC surcharge legal there? I know it is in Australia but it's rarely charged and I've never come across it anywhere else.

I don't approve of a CC surcharge, but it's more honest than DCC. OT, but at the moment Virgin and Jetstar are being taken on by the regulator in Australia for being sneaky about the CC charge.


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