A Lorcha is a carbon slip, so there is no further merchant input required and I really had to guess.

cxua said his customer copy didn't have the two boxes "(it was the DCC amount of my receipt after signature)". So I presume it's carbon.

But in this case I presume you tick the currency selection box, sign, and then the waiter goes back to input the final amount into the terminal? I assume it's similar to your example of A Lorcha. If so, I think you'd have strong grounds for a dispute if your currency choice wasn't honored since the merchant presumably would have the original and you'd have the carbon copy showing a currency choice ticked and signature.

I noticed in the example of the receipt at A Lorcha that there is a box for a tip, so I'm wondering if that could help avoid DCC? It's not as relevant between MOP and HKD, but take my USD denominated cards and compare to MOP for that receipt. For example let's say the markup was 2.7% like on yours to 72.59 USD (real exchange rate of 70.68). I know that part of the world doesn't have a tipping culture, but let's say I left a modest tip on the 564.30 MOP bill of 60 MOP, write a total of 624.30 MOP, and tick the MOP box. I would be livid if I saw a charge of 132.59 USD, and I don't think the waiter would perform a conversion of 60 MOP to 7.51 USD on the fly. It's also possible they wouldn't enter a tip at all, but I don't think the waiter would forgo one. :D Thoughts on this approach?

A Lorcha: I had a carbon copy so it was indisputable that DCC was refused.
AFAIK server made no further input into the card terminal that I'm aware of so it probably was a fxcked terminal.
I was using a local HK bank's card and these banks are very compliance detail-oriented - once presented with a incontrovertible prima facie chargeback case the bank processed a full Reason Code 76 chargeback against the Macau acquirer.

I don't tip with card.
But I think conversion on the fly is very likely - the MOP tip is also converted at the DCC rate manually and a USD tip adjustment applied. Assuming the owner pockets the tip (this is why I leave tips in cash), this is the best way to maximise loot and the chances of keeping it.

The second alternative is maybe the DCC providers want to earn commission on the tip too! Perhaps the fxcked terminals allow for local currency tip adjustment, and will "helpfully" (to the merchant) convert the tip to USD at DCC rate

Visa is only interested in papering over potential liabilities to itself.
They can make the DCC providers swear the Test Act

"We, Bank of China Ltd, do solemnly and sincerely in the presence of God profess, testify, and declare, That I do believe, that in the Sacrament of the Visa transaction there is not any transubstantiation of the local currency into the cardholder currency at or after the consecration thereof by any person whatsoever...And I do solemnly in the presence of God profess, testify, and declare, that I do make this declaration, and every part thereof , in the plain and ordinary sense of the words read unto me, as they are commonly understood by Protestants, without any evasion, equivocation, or mental reservation whatsoever"


And BoC will scroll down to the end of the form, click "Agree", and carry on doing what it did before.

I haven't tried chargeback. All large transactions I use my Amex Plat. In some restaurants where I used my Visa and got DCCed, when I disputed I got the difference back as a form of credit from Chase...

BTW, that "it's for your convenience" kind of speech is like talking to your cable company's tech support about connection issues, but at the other end it's a guy knows nothing about tech. "have you tried restarting your modem/have you tried disconnecting your router and use your computer directly/blah blah blah"

Well, it's true that at Hermes and Van Cleef at the Pacific Place, I got the quote slip first with HKD amount and USD amount, and then when I wanna make sure my choice is honored, I got another final slip showing HKD amount. This was in 2013 Dec.

But the hold is still in the USD amount. It is changed to a lower amount when it is posted.

At some other places, like Disney, they have info screen up front and you are shown the amount in both USD and HKD. You tell the cashier which currency you choose. I got this in at the latest 2012.

Things have changed?

All the BoC machines in pricey hotels use "cancel button" mechanism to turn off DCC. Maybe the shop/restaurant version is different?

I always associate Macau with lack of discipline...

I usually don't tip with a card either. I prefer cash for the reasons that you stated and the fact that the server gets the tip immediately. That's great that you got a full chargeback. I'm wondering if I should pay them a visit to help fight the good fight if they're still pulling this scam come October? :D

On a side topic, does anyone know which ATM in LA/NYC doesn't charge $3 for out-of-network debit cards?

Allpoint has a list of surcharge-free ATMs. 7-Eleven is usually a safe bet too.

Although based on a mistaken belief, I'll tell the cashier that the HKD amount's already been held so DCC has not been refused (otherwise a different amount will be held).

Fight a lie with another lie. Good excuse to get the manager (it did in my case).


I don't get to see DCC that much in HK (only in the company of visitors). Good to hear that some places do quote slips but I can assure you the practice is not universal here (unlike Bangkok, Taipei).

Happened to me in Maldives too even for the charge that eventually posted to USD correctly. But we don't have to tell the (junior) cashiers that.


I haven't come up with them much recently. Last time was in Shenzhen St. Regis Decanter in December 2012 and me and the missus spent half an hour standing over staff just to get the first DCC slip voided.

At F1RST Tax & Duty Free, I was presented with the option of DCC and refused. The non-DCC amount was held, not the higher DCC amount. This was the same at the cafe in Brisbane with the ANZ terminal.

It's true that in HK, DCC only happens where things are expensive or foreigners will visit. The places I've encountered DCC are (but not limited to) Disney, Tom Lee, lots of the stores in Pacific Place and Landmark and Peninsula Hotel Plaza and things like that, DFS, Prince Watch Co., etc. At all those places I had the freedom to choose the currency. Some are pre-print where the choices are given on a keypad, some are post-print where I get a quote slip first (expensive places). The overall experience of mine with HK DCC is pour positive.

I've never been to the bars in HK, so my guess based on you guys' information is that those places may have machines from dirtier acquirers, and since that's where foreign people get drunk, so, you know...

Is it fee-free for out-of-country-and-out-of-network debit cards as well? Namely Union-Pay debit cards issues in China.

Last time I visited a 7-11 in Irvine, I think the machine is Citi's, and it did charge the $3.

About this Allpoint, it seems really nice. But what the point of offering fee-free ATMs? How does it earn money, and who does it get money from?

I was the victim of dcc during my shore excursion from Rostock to Berlin. We stopped at a service area on the autobahn and I purchased about 7 euro worth of stuff. The dragon lady type clerk, surely East German type, had the credit card terminal not on the counter, dipped my card, did not ask me to sign and handed me a receipt. It was only when I got on the coach that I realized I had been ripped off with the statement I was offered the opportunity to pay in local currency. It must have cost me about 40 or so cents.

I will orf course be disputing the charge when I come home and hope the bank has the good sense to charge it back to this scum of a merchant. This spreading cancer must be stopped in its tracks and I will not allow myself to be treated like a sucker in this manner. However, most likely the bank will just credit me the 40 or so cents and not charge it back and penalize the piece of garbage merchant.

Yes, the 7-Eleven machines charge. Rarely will you find a card that is fee-free for UnionPay in the US (I encountered one such machine in the last five years, and it was at a Wal-Mart in Arizona). When I need cash out of my UnionPay card I load my Bluebird card and withdraw from that. Such a method is usually more associated with the Manufactured Spend forum, but hey, it's something.

Allpoint is a network that requires your issuer to participate, so it's not free to everyone. I've got a card that uses that network, but it's US issued. No non-US bank participates in it yet.