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-   -   Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1542983-dynamic-currency-conversion-dcc-2014-2016-a.html)

reclusive46 Mar 14, 2014 9:34 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 22522434)
What about in Switzerland?

About a year ago, I didn't see DCC in Germany except at the Frankfurt Marriott. In the Czech Republic I only made a couple of card purchases and none were DCC. In Austria I only had the hotel, the Renaissance Wien, which didn't charge DCC. I didn't make any card purchases in Slovakia. I thought the Czech Republic would be a good candidate for DCC, but maybe I didn't visit places that did it.


I've never noticed it in Switzerland either. Some countries in Europe seem to be a bit confused with DCC as they usually gather I'm English but they don't understand why I'd be charged in a different currency and often select Euros without asking (which is fine with me). This is mainly because Europeans thinks that the UK is the Euro.

Spain is the only place I've ever been caught out with DCC, I was never asked. It was only for 4 Euros though, so I couldn't really be bothered to get him to void it. Pretty much all my big expenses will go on my Amex (its usually accepted) that is foreign transaction fee and then I don't have to worry about DCC.

Majuki Mar 14, 2014 10:50 am


Originally Posted by reclusive46 (Post 22523179)
Spain is the only place I've ever been caught out with DCC, I was never asked. It was only for 4 Euros though, so I couldn't really be bothered to get him to void it. Pretty much all my big expenses will go on my Amex (its usually accepted) that is foreign transaction fee and then I don't have to worry about DCC.

The problem here is that not fighting the DCC markup on 4 € is only exacerbating the problem. It's like the merchant saying it'll be 3% more to use a card.

zyxlsy Mar 18, 2014 8:09 pm

http://zyxwg.vip.sina.com/BJB.jpg

Just to show everyone what the transaction of Discover Card in China looks like.

Actually, this slip isn't the most formal one I've seen so far. Usually the ISSUER would be something like 银联卡 or 他行卡.

@percismith, do you feel this is weird that the slip is from a Bank of Beijing machine, but the acquirer is Bank of China?

percysmith Mar 18, 2014 8:46 pm

The unionpay file in post #141 says "00010344 ","国际业务平台". Actually more detailed than the usual ones you've seen.

As to the Bank of Beijing link, I really can't figure it out.
AFAIK there is no BoC ownership in BoB http://static.sse.com.cn/disclosure/..._n.pdf#page=45
So is this some sort of sub-acquiring agreement? I'll post the q up in hongkongcard.com (sorry my Chinese is not good enough for PRC 51credit or kayou315 websites)

zyxlsy Mar 18, 2014 9:00 pm


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 22548906)
The unionpay file in post #141 says "00010344 ","国际业务平台". Actually more detailed than the usual ones you've seen.

As to the Bank of Beijing link, I really can't figure it out.
AFAIK there is no BoC ownership in BoB http://static.sse.com.cn/disclosure/..._n.pdf#page=45
So is this some sort of sub-acquiring agreement? I'll post the q up in hongkongcard.com (sorry my Chinese is not good enough for PRC 51credit or kayou315 websites)

Dude, how do you know this much about Banking business in China... I think I've known enough here but there no way I can pull this document of BOB out...

percysmith Mar 18, 2014 9:03 pm

I don't. But I work in financial reporting and I know how to get financial disclosures for listed companies online for a few jurisdictions including China (not to mention I audited some of them whilst training in a public accounting firm)

percysmith Mar 18, 2014 11:10 pm


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 22548745)
http://zyxwg.vip.sina.com/BJB.jpg

Just to show everyone what the transaction of Discover Card in China looks like.

Actually, this slip isn't the most formal one I've seen so far. Usually the ISSUER would be something like 银联卡 or 他行卡.

@percismith, do you feel this is weird that the slip is from a Bank of Beijing machine, but the acquirer is Bank of China?

I have an opinion that BoB simply provides the hardware. The acquirer is definitely BoC.

He mentioned HK's parknshop has a similar arrangement with Amex where Parknshop will run AE transactions through DBS hardware but the acquiring, settlement and troubleshooting is all Amex.

Majuki Mar 19, 2014 6:13 am

zyxlsy indicated in the other thread that hotels in China are now able to process without DCC as long as it has been requested?

percysmith Mar 19, 2014 7:42 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 22550480)
zyxlsy indicated in the other thread that hotels in China are now able to process without DCC as long as it has been requested?



Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 22548809)
If you go to a hotel and put hundreds of dollars on your card, just let them turn off DCC. If they fail, ask them to cancel and re-do. For 建行 and 中行 machines, just press the red cancel button after entering amount and clicking enter (this works in all 30 hotels I've tried in Beijing, Shanghai, Shijiazhuang). If you find a 工行 machine, just swipe your Visa or MasterCard, as all the 工行 ones I've run into in Beijing don't have DCC turned on by default.

Never seen a machine that is unbeatable in China. Maybe there is, but the chain hotel ones are controllable. They are becoming aware of the hostility from big foreign customers like Morgan Stanley who use business credit cards. Actually, the chain hotels I've been to all will willingly turn DCC of for you, and banks do annoy them by pushing them to cheat the customers, but apparently hotels are on the customers' side once they know you know the deal.


zyxlsy Mar 19, 2014 8:24 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 22550480)
zyxlsy indicated in the other thread that hotels in China are now able to process without DCC as long as it has been requested?

At least, the ones I've been to all did what I requested.

As far as I can remember:

*Ritz-Carlton Beijing Financial Street (the front desk staff told me Bank of China would come to them to do "sales" of DCC, but the guests of this brand are mostly 500 companies, and they don't wanna be fools, so the hotel would turn off DCC very willingly and professionally)
*Westin financial street Beijing
*Westin Chaoyang Beijing
*Sheraton Dongcheng Beijing
*InterContinental financial street Beijing
*InterContinental Beichen Beijing
*Crowne Plaza Beijing Sun Palace
*Crowne Plaza Beijing Chaoyang U-Town
*All Holiday Inns in Beijing
*Holiday Inn Express Wangjing Beijing
*Holiday Inn Downtown Shanghai
*Holiday Inn Express Zhabei Shanghai
*Renaissance Yuyuan Shanghai
*InterContinental Ruijin Shanghai (this one they used another POS which has no DCC, but I have to request the IHG points by phone from Chase)
*Holiday Inn Shijiazhuang (this one they didn't know to press cancel, but did so when I instruct without hesitation)

All of the POS I ran into in these hotels are from 交通银行, 中国银行, 工商银行, and UnionPay. 工行 and UnionPay don't have DCC (as far as I have encountered), and 交行 and 中行 can be turned off by pressing cancel right after pressing enter.

For smaller private business, they tend to wanna save on the swipe fee, so they would stand with the bank to DCC you. Just get a Discover to use in China.

P.S. I am trying to find a UnionPay sticker to put on my Discover, so people would not refuse it simply because these is no UnionPay sign. I've faced this... Once in IKEA, they swiped my card, thinking it is a foreign card, probably waiting for DCC to happen, but the POS machine act as they were swiping UnionPay cards. They panicked, held me for five minutes, trying to confirm they got the transaction for numerous times, then let me go.

The slip just says 银联卡 when you use Discover in China.

Majuki Mar 19, 2014 8:58 am

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will request to be billed in RMB at hotels, but the suggestion of "just use Discover" sort of runs contrary to this thread. Does the cancel trick work on all terminals? I thought I remember some posts on the China DCC thread by percysmith that noted the terminals were locked down in a way that forced DCC.

zyxlsy Mar 19, 2014 9:13 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 22551209)
Thanks for the detailed reply. I will request to be billed in RMB at hotels, but the suggestion of "just use Discover" sort of runs contrary to this thread. Does the cancel trick work on all terminals? I thought I remember some posts on the China DCC thread by percysmith that noted the terminals were locked down in a way that forced DCC.

I think percysmith mentioned Shenzhen or Guangzhou. Shanghai is the most southern I've been to, and I've been fine so far.

Beijing and Shanghai is particularly professional at this matter.

Just mention "bill me in RMB". Always ask for the most senior guy, and actually, don't let the non-Chinese guys deal with this matter. Those guys tend to be trainees, and don't know the story behind... Present the idea of RMB billing way at the beginning and constantly reiterate this throughout and make sure they say "yes we will turn it off" without hesitation.

Majuki Mar 19, 2014 9:57 am


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 22551292)
I think percysmith mentioned Shenzhen or Guangzhou. Shanghai is the most southern I've been to, and I've been fine so far.

Beijing and Shanghai is particularly professional at this matter.

I have not been to Mainland China, only Hong Kong and Macau. I got hit with DCC at the Venetian in Macau, but I didn't see DCC in Hong Kong. This was in July 2011. I didn't notice about the DCC until I went back to check my records while creating this thread. In Taiwan they will always print a quote slip in TWD or USD, and I've never had a problem getting billed in TWD. My wife always specifies TWD in case there is a language barrier, but usually the cashiers at department stores will give me the quote slip to tick an X in TWD. The only exception I've seen has been at the Novotel in Taoyuan where they will place a hold charge on your card in USD, but it gets removed when you check out.

kebosabi Mar 19, 2014 12:32 pm


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 22548966)
Dude, how do you know this much about Banking business in China... I think I've known enough here but there no way I can pull this document of BOB out...

Being able to Google in an another language also helps expand your search results rather than being limited to English languages sources. That's how I do it for stuff related to Japanese (anime, manga, video games, Japanese mass transit, etc.). :)

zyxlsy Mar 19, 2014 7:00 pm


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 22551576)
I have not been to Mainland China, only Hong Kong and Macau. I got hit with DCC at the Venetian in Macau, but I didn't see DCC in Hong Kong. This was in July 2011. I didn't notice about the DCC until I went back to check my records while creating this thread. In Taiwan they will always print a quote slip in TWD or USD, and I've never had a problem getting billed in TWD. My wife always specifies TWD in case there is a language barrier, but usually the cashiers at department stores will give me the quote slip to tick an X in TWD. The only exception I've seen has been at the Novotel in Taoyuan where they will place a hold charge on your card in USD, but it gets removed when you check out.

In Hong Kong (Percysmith definitely is more familiar with this matter, but I'll tell my experience), there is DCC on every machine (seems so), but you do get the choice. 100% of the POS I ran into (around 100 so far), will print a choice slip first, and after they enter your choice, you get another confirmation slip. This is the way at most of the boutique stores (Hermes, Chanel, etc.).

In restaurants and hotels, they almost always ask you HKD or USD, and I've had no problem so far choosing HKD. Some restaurants don't ask first, so I'll tell them to use HKD.

Like Korea, you can be "chosen" to use USD, as suggested by percysmith, simply because the final choice is entered by merchants by hand. I tend to believe 99.9999% of the merchants are good people who might not know what this DCC is, and there are always evils who would con you deliberately as DCC might be beneficial to the merchants on some degree.

So, in Hong Kong, always make it clear at the beginning. Its system is more foreign CC friendly than China's. So don't be afraid.


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