Okay. I'm willing to accept this argument, but Visa/MC could argue that they aren't breaking any laws in and of themselves based on the fact that they are at least two stages removed from the infringing parties (Visa/MC-->acquirers--->processors--->agents who market the processors' products--->merchants).

The question is how high up the food chain can you reasonably pin the blame?

Any equivalents in China or Ireland?

I think the really simple fact of violation in DCC is the Bank of Communication Moondog mentioned. It's system chooses DCC by default, and your slip says you are offered a choice, which is so not true.
I have no problem being offered DCC, but I want it like Hong Kong where you can see the rate and you hit the button, so you have the control.
The Ritz Carlton in Beijing told me the bank charges them 1% of non-DCC, and 0.5% with DCC. I am not sure what the rate is for UnionPay transactions.

Bank of China's POS choose DCC by default as well. It does say you were offered the choice on the slip, though...

Then when merchant don't want to opt you out, they say it's default... lol

China is a pretty closed market. You see, everything here is done via some state authorized or approved proxies, while the rest of the world can do that without the middle men. Even taking a TOEFL test here is done through a Ministry of Education's agency, not directly via ETS. The banking system here is more of a example, that's why you see Bank of Communication POSs doing stuff like this and no one cares. Everything Bank of Communication has belongs to the government, and I don't think Visa/MC can take on that...

Most of my cards are HKD so I have to rely on visitors to tell me/show me what happens in a HK DCC transaction, but do you get a button selection in HK?!

The HK norm is for the terminal to not be shown to the customer - any buttons (if available) are pressed by merchant. We haven't moved onto chip-and-PIN so most card terminals are not mobile.

Refuse to sign, request merchant void the DCC slip and present alternative payment i.e. AE.

But not always possible (UK and Europe):
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/u-k-i...-currency.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/franc...lafayette.html

or takes long: To void a BoC DCC - 请输入主管密码?!

Negative. HSBC (itself a DCC pioneer!) and HKSCC have substantial stakes in 交行.

I thought MOF still has majority stakes in all the Big4 plus the second tier banks too.

They do in Big4 but don't in Bankcomm (or CMB for the matter). But they still are the largest shareholder.

HKSCC "represents" HK retail investors who makes it very difficult to vote their shares http://webb-site.com/articles/devoted2failure.asp (you don't even get corporate communications after putting shares in CCASS - it just appears as a number in your bank statement).

HSBC is determined to be The World's Local Bank, emulating the world's bad banking practices as well as good.

For example, at Disney, a display with two buttons is placed outside the booth (at least I remember that's like this), and I was shown both amounts and I chose the currency. Being the first time I used my US-based cards abroad, I chose USD... I do remember there are other places that I can hit the button, but I need some time to bring the memories out...

At some merchants where they use mobile POS, when I request HKD payments, I get another slip stating the final amount in HKD, after I circle and sign the first slip.

Anyway, I didn't encounter any bad POS that has its currency selection chosen by default, at about 10+ hotels, 100+ stores (upscale and street drug stores), and 20+ restaurants (the ones accepting cards).

That's why I like HK's way~ And, I hate chip and pin...

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Zyxlsy: check your statement to be sure. Carbon slips in particular - you may have circled HKD but the terminal will simply ignore it (figuring you or your bank couldn't be bothered to chargeback).

Thermal slips with no mention of USD are definitely DCC-free and need not be checked.

After the CPC government seize the control of the financial market in Shanghai in the 50s, I think they have never release the grasp on that ever since.

I used to work for a power generation company in China, a company has the word "international" in its title, and is listed in HK and London, and I encountered numerous things which don't have HK or London shareholders' participation at all (like changing its General Manager, or CEO you can say). All these orders are directly from the top, then through the "parent" group company which is 100% CPC owned (a level higher than MOF owned) and has the majority share.

My wife works for one of the big 4, one with a deep shareholding connection with a bank in USA, and she doesn't think that USA's bank has any say when the government shuffles the Presidents of those big banks of China.

I personally don't believe the government would let a foreign company have the majority in any company of the important sectors, especially like banks which are directly owned by the party. Bank of Communication is the one right after the big 4.

Can still remember an article once saying that China's government has turned from trying not to violate WTO rules, to playing WTO rules in its hands. Same thing here, they can let outside investors in with their money, but they will not share the control, not a bit.

So...

I always look at the slip to see whether the amount is shown in HKD, and I go through my transactions each time I come back from HK. Now, for more than 100 transactions there, all my HKD requests are fulfilled. I love that place.

Maybe I don't go to ...... places, or Lan Kwai Fong...

I think our post can host a gathering, in either HK or Shanghai. Beijing simply has too much toxic fog.
But I was told Shanghai and HK have worse air qualities these years... But I still love these two cities a lot.

http://zyxwg.vip.sina.com/Shenkansen.jpg

Just found these receipts from Japan in 2012. Hopefully when they fully roll out DCC there, we can still get clean receipts (without marks of other currencies) like this without so much talk.

Can't imagine negotiating DCC with Japanese merchants... That's gonna be impossible!

In Poland with an Euro chip-and-pin Maestro card I had a really bad experience in a hotel. On the customer display "AMOUNT PLN 100.00 ENTER PIN ****" was shown. After entering the PIN this was on the Polcard slip:

Exchange rate*: 0.24257
Fee/mark-up: 3.00%
Amount 24.26 EUR
* This currency conversion is provided
by eService S.A.

I have chosen not to use the MasterCard
conversion method and I will
have no recourse against MasterCard
concerning the currency
conversion or its disclosure

The official MasterCard/Maestro exchange rate for that day was 0.23594.

I disputed the transaction with my bank without success. I learned from the central payment processing center in Frankfurt, Germany that a chip-and-pin transaction cannot be voided.