kebosabi

Of course this is considering that PINs can/cannot be changed at all. If they can be changed to something that's more easy to remember, then Chip-and-PIN could be done.

In addition, it's also worth noting that the EMV chip can hold A LOT more data than a magnetic stripe. It's like comparing a 5.25" 720 KB floppy disk to a 16 GB USB stick. So in the future, signature or PIN may not be the only ones possible. It can also be done like Chip-and-Fingerprint, Chip-and-Retina Scan or Chip-and-partial DNA sample.

dgcom

Anything easy to remember means easy to guess. Moreover, if people start making PINs the same across their cards (to simplify their life), security is compromised even more.
And the issue with changing PIN is still there - you can request PIN change over the phone for magnetic stripe card, but for Chip card you have to personally appear in the brunch of the issuer bank to do that - all good, if you live nearby. May be, in the distant future, the machines, which can change PIN will be more widespread (cross-bank agreements, post offices, etc.), but given the size of this country, this will take loooong time to happen.

I guess, Chip&PIN will be here eventually, but I do not see it replacing signature cards in foreseeable future.

jamar

Uh, PINs on Chip+PIN cards can be changed at ATMs as well. At least, that's my experience with my Canadian Chip+PIN card. One bank even insisted that I had to do it at the ATM and not at the teller.

sdsearch

But can it be done at "network" ATMs not operated by your bank (say, just any other bank anywhere on which you can use your ATM card because of one or another netowrk, such as Plus, CIrrus, etc, that it's on), or does it have to be an ATM operated by your own bank? (Obviously, if you went to the bank and were directed outside, it was an ATM operated by your own bank in that case.)

jamar

...Yes, only my own bank's machines. I had assumed that most banks would deploy more off-branch ATMs to go with this, but obviously that's incorrect on my part.

sdsearch

Many people apply for credit cards online, with no regards to whether the bank that offers the credit cards has branches near them or not. And if the point of the card is to earn a certain miles/points currency, there may not be a choice of banks. Up to now that's mattered little, but if changing of chip PIN can only be done at the bank's own machines, it suddenly matters a lot, it would seem.

And my chip + "offline" PIN card (Diners Club MC) is from a bank (BMO Harris) which may have plenty of locations in Illinois but if it truly has any in California (where I live) their website won't find them for me.

jamar

...point taken. I certainly didn't take the existence of physical Citi locations into account when I got my AAdvantage Visa (my US home base is Tennessee, where there are none, and while there are Citi locations here in Shanghai, they seem to be unable to do anything relating to US-issued cards).

mia

Only if the ATM is equipped with the hardware and software to re-write the chip. A standard USA ATM which only reads the magnetic stripe will not be able to touch the chip.

cvarming

So I have been doing a little testing in Barcelona using my CITI premier with a global chip.

The Phone Shop, a standard brick-and-mortar store: the POS terminal surprised the teller by printing the receipt for a signature. So chip-and-sig worked and was the default choice.

The Barcelona metro automated kiosks. The POS terminal requested my PIN. I gave it a wrong PIN and it rejected the transaction. I started a new transaction and gave it my cash advance PIN, and the transaction came back good. My PIN is different from the original assigned by CITI, so this must be an instance of online PIN verification. Great. That worked as expected.

So far I have been able to do all transactions using the EMV chip, but the automated kiosks in the metro needs my PIN. And every transaction posted as a standard purchase (not a cash-advance).

I haven't taken this card to France or the UK were off-line PIN verification is common, but outside those countries the chip-and-sig works perfectly when you remember the cash advance PIN.

PhillyInvestor

That's very good information! Thank you for sharing these data points.

unavaca

Did the PIN-based Metro transaction count as a standard purchase, as well?

cityboy340

I have the JP Morgan Select card which is Chip and sig also, and I didn't have any problems in the UK at Heathrow Express kiosks, and also in France at SNCF kiosks, both of which only took chip cards. I wasn't asked for a PIN. I was actually surprised that it had worked, given that I had read of problems with the sig cards. However, each transaction was relatively little (no more than £20) so it may be like the US where you don't have to sign if it's under $25 or something like that.

I was also able to request a chip card for my BofA Bankamericard cash rewards, whether the card that shows up will actually have the chip remains to be seen, but I'm hopeful so far!

JEFFJAGUAR

It will!

MASTERNC

Add Fifth Third to the issuer list, at least for commercial cards to start.

http://www.virtual-strategy.com/2012...mmercial-cards

D582

There is more information that has to be read and written to the chip, so that is why it may seem to take longer and why you must keep the card in until the end. In regards to your comment about cashiers having to enter an amount, credit and debit card processing in Canada has on the overall been less 'integrated' with the point of sale systems than what you see in the US.

It's theoretically possible to do those.

Actually, offline PIN at point of sale terminals is much more common than you might think. Canada uses offline PIN. In fact, our national debit network, Interac, switched from swipe and PIN (online) to chip and PIN (offline). Online PIN is a big hassle to manage at point of sale.

I would also like to point out that offline vs. online PIN is not related to whether a transaction is processed offline or online. In Canada we use offline PIN but all debit transactions and almost all credit transactions are authorised online.

If there are agreements between your bank and the other bank, then there is no reason why this is not possible.