jamar

Exactly why I looked at CIBC first. Since I visit Canada, it's not an issue to open a savings account like this one and put some money in it every now and then.
However, that one only allows for one free transaction per month, including bill pay. Not too appealing. Thus I would rather have this to be able to perform more than one transaction a month without incurring a $5/transaction fee. Use the one free transaction allowed by my savings account to pay the bill at the end.

Much better than having an asset/checking account with debit card, due to that requiring a minimum of $1000 for not levying a fee. I mentioned it before as an option but only due to it being a lower requirement than Barclay's.

And as for mia's comment about Chase, I refuse to deal with them since my first attempt in getting a card from them ended in them asking me for my tax return and paystubs. I don't know what about my application set off the extra scrutiny, but I refuse to submit that much info to them. Also because I've been in at least one situation where a PIN-less card refused to function (automatic train ticket machines in Japan). That one forces you to type in a PIN or it pops your card back out and in effect says "nope". And where are the other issuers? Chase, Wells Fargo (on a closed-trial basis), The UN's credit union (very limited) and US Bank. Not quite a half-dozen.

Oh well, I'll see how it all pans out on my next visit to Canada. Hopefully if everything goes well I'll leave with an EMV Visa or MC. If not, I'll just hope for greater acceptance of the EMV UnionPay cards I've got now.

Though the business about TD Canada Trust advertising in BUF does make me wonder: If RBC can offer integrated US banking packages (checking/savings/credit) for Canadians (HSBC always could, though not upstate anymore since they sold those branches), then why can't TD do it the other way around? Offer their US customers the ability to open TD Canada Trust checking/savings/credit accounts for that much-valued EMV chip and integration with existing TD Bank accounts for cheap/free transfers across the border.

pWei

Nothing a little tape or other non-conductive material can't cure.

jamar

Not quite. My current EMV cards already prompt chip-capable POS terminals to use the chip when swiped. The merchant then does something weird to bypass it (I've been told that the back-end here isn't quite ready yet) but taping over the chip solves nothing; the merchant has to be willing to override it.

dgcom

Hi!

This is very good info, although I just confirmed that TD Canada Trust debit (access) card has the following on it:

1. Interac
2. Plus
3. Green Machine (TD own network, I think)

Since this has Plus network, I think it should work in most European POS - am I right here?

TD_Canada

Hi dgcom. It's Chris from TD. Thanks for helping out the other posters. We just wanted to jump in and clarify that generally speaking, you can only use a TD Canada Trust Access Card for in-store debit in Canada (via Interac) and at locations in the US with merchants on the NYCE network (US only). For more info about US debit please see http://bit.ly/w1DuoC. Hope this helps! Have an awesome day ^CT

dgcom

Chris, thank you VERY much for chiming in!

Wonder what the Plus logo for then? And there was no NYCE logo on the card I've seen. But that's sad... I was hoping that chip could be used in Europe.

Card does have magnetic strip, so it should be usable in retail locations compatible with the networks, printed on the card.

kebosabi

Amen. I can understand the gripe if there were no American banks out there that offered an EMV chip like last year, but we have SEVERAL now which is a lot different than NONE.

• JP Morgan Chase Select with Chip and Signature (no forex fee, annual fee $99, earns rewards)
• US Bank FlexPerks with Chip and Signature (forex fee, but annual fee $59, earns rewards, comes with NFC contactless as well)
• CitiAAdvantage Executive with Chip and PIN (no forex fee, annual fee $350, earns rewards)
• Bunch of smaller credit unions and other banks (i.e. UNFCU, SECU North Carolina, Wells Fargo, Silicon Valley Bank)

While none may offer the icing of the cake (Chip and PIN, no forex fees, low or no annual fees), at least there are options that you can use to nudge the banks to seriously start offering them. Whereas last year, there was no recourse for US based consumers to switch banks because no one offered them, now we have multiple choices that we as a consumer, can use to get the ball rolling faster.

So say if you have a CapitalOne card that is your main credit card that you use abroad because it has no forex fees. But what good is it if it doesn’t have a Chip and caused you troubles in buying train tickets in France?

Well, you now have the option to call up CapitalOne and say:

Look, I like your product with the no forex fee feature and all, but it lacks a chip which doesn't do much good outside of the US.

In contrast, Chase offers a no forex fee card called the JP Morgan Chase Select which has both the mag-stripe and the EMV chip so I can use the card via the chip in places where they don't accept the mag-stripe anymore.

Now give me a good reason why I should stick with CapitalOne if Chase offers a card that has a chip on it that is sure to guarantee no hassles when traveling abroad?

Granted, the no forex fee is great, but then why should I pay X in annual fees if the acceptance of your mag-stripe only card is being phased out all over the world? I can easily cancel your card and make the switch to the JP Morgan Chase Select VISA so that I have the chip, ya' know.

The more people start doing this, the execs at CapitalOne will soon realize that the presence of a chip is becoming a differentiating factor in free market competition. And face it, that’s what drives change in America: profits and capital gains via the free market system. Obviously CapitalOne doesn’t want their customers going to Chase, so if they hear more complaints like this, the only response CapOne can do is to up the ante with something better, like a no forex fee Chip and PIN hybrid card for $59 annual fee or so.

We have multiple options today. Use it. ^

D582

No the Plus network is meant for ATM usage. You would need a Visa Debit card for POS

dgcom

Hi!

Ok, I see, so at least it should work in any ATM which is in Plus network?
I wonder, if debit cards in general can be used in POS, why wouldn't this one work if POS supports Plus?

BTW, I double-checked and that TD "access card" does NOT have NYCE logo.

P.S. About existing US cards with chip - looks like ALL of them require annual fee. If I'd need such card tomorrow, I'd get it regardless annual fee. But if there would be one without fee, I'd get it regardless if I need it now or not yet... just because it is a novelty thing

TD_Canada

Hi again dgcom and thanks D582! Great questions and observations. The PLUS network of ATMs is owned and operated by Visa International. Our cards have the PLUS logo on the back as we've had a long standing relationship with Visa. We're also Visa issuers through our TD Visa cards, so the arrangement makes sense as does the notice on the back of our cards for PLUS.

As for NYCE, that's something we set up in the past couple of years. It would be a very big undertaking to reissue all our Access Cards just to show another service logo, so that's not likely going to happen anytime soon. It's more of a convenience option for our customers to be able to debit for in-store purchases as Canadians more frequently travel to the US than anywhere else.

Having said that, as you can't use your Access Card for POS in Europe, a lot of customers will make their purchase using a TD Visa, then simply transfer funds through EasyWeb from their account to their TD Visa. EasyWeb's available 24/7 through virtually any Internet connected computer anywhere in the world. As there's still a 21-day grace period for interest on purchases as well, it's not something you'd need to rush to do either.

Most retail POS terminals in Europe have integrated chip and magnetic strip machines, just like here, and the latter to account for non-chip cards. However, the same rules apply in that your Access Card can only be used in ATMs on the PLUS network.

Hope that helps you further! Take care

dgcom

Hi!

TD_Canada - thank you VERY much for detailed post.

That's interesting. The card, which I'm talking about was issued less then a month ago in Montreal. Still no NYCE logo... If you had this for two years, I'd think new cards would have had this already printed on them?

Well, this is besides the point of this discussion - here people are interested in cards with chip and you are recommending the one without - that does not help to solve the original problem - being able to pay in unattended POS in Europe.
Moreover, I doubt that everyone can get the Visa card - for example, students, just started education in University won't probably be eligible...

Again - Plus does have ATMs in Europe, and I think TD Canada Trust access card should work there. I won't probably work in automated train ticket terminal - but that's not 100% certain, someone needs to try - quite often issuers of the cards don't realize their potential

jamar

Remember, TD Visa in Canada has the chip. TD Visa in America doesn't. Hope TD Canada can pull up US credit reports or offer secured cards if you're not resident.

dgcom

Interesting... I was more looking at debit card, but checked the selection of credit cards just now and wow - they have easily 4 times as many as US TD and all of them with chip... Most of them have annual fee, but some don't - interesting option, but I did not research forex fees...
Looks like they allow any card to be secured, but I do not know if they still would need Social Insurance Number (they probably will).

I keep wondering what prevents US banks from issuing wide array of chipped as well aswave to pay cards here... (I might know the answer though, work for a bank myself... )

jamar

I PMed the TD_Canada user account (it seems to be staffed by multiple people) asking if non-resident Americans (no SIN) can apply for one. If they can, then they're on the table for me as well as CIBC. Otherwise it's just the second since I can't keep enough in a checking account to waive the fee ($1500 at TD for 10 transactions/month, $1000 for the same at CIBC). Both offer savings accounts with one free transaction a month. Use the CC when needed and use that one free transaction to pay the bill in one clean sweep.

dgcom

Yeah, TD Canada Trust checking accounts are expensive (if you are not a student), agree.
Also, transferring money to checking or saving there might cost you ~$40 wire transfer unless you have other ways of getting money there.
I wonder if payment for their credit card can be made by direct debit from US checking account...

Anyway - keep us posted here