lockdown and who pays the bill
Mar 10, 2020, 10:54 am
#61
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Though in this scenario the hotel has the ability to "kick out" guests... Though I have a feeling the negative PR would heavily outweigh the costs of housing people in rooms that you would likely be leaving empty otherwise
Mar 10, 2020, 12:37 pm
#62
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Sick people sleeping in the street would be great for the hotel's reputation and neighborhood attractiveness.
Mar 10, 2020, 2:28 pm
#64
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A truly unfortunate situation would be someone using points for an aspirational stay at an extremely expensive resort getting stuck there (local quarantine, entry requirements for next destination, or flight cancelations) and being forced to pay (either in real money or by attempting to buy enough points) for fourteen additional days.
Mar 10, 2020, 3:02 pm
#65
Join Date: Jan 2003
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A truly unfortunate situation would be someone using points for an aspirational stay at an extremely expensive resort getting stuck there (local quarantine, entry requirements for next destination, or flight cancelations) and being forced to pay (either in real money or by attempting to buy enough points) for fourteen additional days.
1) Pay rack rate in cash for 14 days. Points payment not allowed.
2) Pay it on a credit card. Then dispute it once you are safely repatriated. The credit card company rules against you because you occupied the room. You get sued by the CC company and get a judgment against you which leads to bank levy and wage garnishment. If you don't show up at a debtor's exam or provide evasive or misleading answers to avoid paying, judge rules you in contempt and you go to debtor's jail in the US.
Worst case scenario:
You are a points blogger without a real job so you have no substantial cash to pay rack rate. You are quarantined for 14 days and there are no flights out. Points/miles redemption not allowed. Debit/cash only. You don't pay, you get blocked by immigration and go to jail. You ask for your one phone call to the embassy and the prison guard says there is no such thing. You find out later from your embassy that you got canned from your job because you abandoned your position (if you're not a blogger).
Don't go unless you have deep pockets of cash. Not points. Not miles.
Mar 10, 2020, 3:04 pm
#66
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Hopefully it’s not a country that has de facto debtors’ prisons (even as the prisons for debtors may be the same as for others who may be considered criminals of a more common sort). So which countries have a recent history of imprisoning people for unpaid financial debts? The UAE comes to mind, but it may not be alone.
Of course, in Japan one can be imprisoned for a long time before a trial occurs for financial crimes.
Mar 10, 2020, 4:17 pm
#67
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Best case scenario:
1) Pay rack rate in cash for 14 days. Points payment not allowed.
2) Pay it on a credit card. Then dispute it once you are safely repatriated. The credit card company rules against you because you occupied the room. You get sued by the CC company and get a judgment against you which leads to bank levy and wage garnishment. If you don't show up at a debtor's exam or provide evasive or misleading answers to avoid paying, judge rules you in contempt and you go to debtor's jail in the US.
Worst case scenario:
You are a points blogger without a real job so you have no substantial cash to pay rack rate. You are quarantined for 14 days and there are no flights out. Points/miles redemption not allowed. Debit/cash only. You don't pay, you get blocked by immigration and go to jail. You ask for your one phone call to the embassy and the prison guard says there is no such thing. You find out later from your embassy that you got canned from your job because you abandoned your position (if you're not a blogger).
Don't go unless you have deep pockets of cash. Not points. Not miles.
1) Pay rack rate in cash for 14 days. Points payment not allowed.
2) Pay it on a credit card. Then dispute it once you are safely repatriated. The credit card company rules against you because you occupied the room. You get sued by the CC company and get a judgment against you which leads to bank levy and wage garnishment. If you don't show up at a debtor's exam or provide evasive or misleading answers to avoid paying, judge rules you in contempt and you go to debtor's jail in the US.
Worst case scenario:
You are a points blogger without a real job so you have no substantial cash to pay rack rate. You are quarantined for 14 days and there are no flights out. Points/miles redemption not allowed. Debit/cash only. You don't pay, you get blocked by immigration and go to jail. You ask for your one phone call to the embassy and the prison guard says there is no such thing. You find out later from your embassy that you got canned from your job because you abandoned your position (if you're not a blogger).
Don't go unless you have deep pockets of cash. Not points. Not miles.
Mar 10, 2020, 5:14 pm
#68
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This is the distinction as I see it:
If *I* break a leg or get sick and *I* have to stay in a place for longer than planned, then of course I expect to pay, potentially via whatever insurances I carry to cover things that happen to me.
If the *entire hotel* is locked down and I am prevented from leaving because the hotel allowed an infectious disease on site (which may or may not be their fault/negligence, but certainly isn't mine), there is a 0% chance I will pay the hotel extra.
Yes, there were posts (perhaps joking, was hard to tell) at the beginning wondering what rate the Diamond Princess passengers would be charged for their quarantine. Of course that was a ridiculous idea too, and Princess not only didn't charge extra, but refunded the entire cruise (which had been mostly complete by that point). A hotel that tried to do the same would be (rightfully) widely roasted on social media and probably in court.
If *I* break a leg or get sick and *I* have to stay in a place for longer than planned, then of course I expect to pay, potentially via whatever insurances I carry to cover things that happen to me.
If the *entire hotel* is locked down and I am prevented from leaving because the hotel allowed an infectious disease on site (which may or may not be their fault/negligence, but certainly isn't mine), there is a 0% chance I will pay the hotel extra.
Yes, there were posts (perhaps joking, was hard to tell) at the beginning wondering what rate the Diamond Princess passengers would be charged for their quarantine. Of course that was a ridiculous idea too, and Princess not only didn't charge extra, but refunded the entire cruise (which had been mostly complete by that point). A hotel that tried to do the same would be (rightfully) widely roasted on social media and probably in court.
It's simple if you are not allowed to leave, you don't pay. The entity is on the hook for paying is the one requiring the lockdown. The hotel takes it up with the government after it's all over.
If it's on lockdown, they aren't making money from that room whether you stay or not so really it comes down to costs. You minimize costs.. eliminate extra amenities during the lock down if needed. Cut back housekeeping if needed. Cut back free food etc
If it's on lockdown, they aren't making money from that room whether you stay or not so really it comes down to costs. You minimize costs.. eliminate extra amenities during the lock down if needed. Cut back housekeeping if needed. Cut back free food etc
Mar 10, 2020, 5:19 pm
#69
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Another question here is what rate the hotel "can" charge (on the scale of "basement discount" to "nosebleed walk-up")...for example, if a hotel was going for $125/night at booking but they try to hit you for $399/night for a lock-in...
Mar 10, 2020, 5:22 pm
#70
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Couple of hotels in Maldives on lockdown! The news article states that the hotel has closed all activities and food is being rationed. I wonder what the guests will have to pay.
Last edited by onlysuites; Mar 10, 2020 at 5:51 pm
Mar 10, 2020, 7:55 pm
#71
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 188
I think most would only charge a "cost" rate.
Yes PR wise, bad move. Legally though it's a sound move
Incorrect . Duty of care ALWAYS applies under EC261. The stated exclusions are in regard to compensation. However I dont think EC261 applies here. The flight is still operating , the airline isnt refusing carriage, the government is the preventing you from even getting to airport.
Legally you are the one on the hook to pay hotel if government doesn't. Absent a law saying the government assumes the liability, the liability is yours. I don't agree with government not paying, but that is a governmental decision.
Yes PR wise, bad move. Legally though it's a sound move
Incorrect . Duty of care ALWAYS applies under EC261. The stated exclusions are in regard to compensation. However I dont think EC261 applies here. The flight is still operating , the airline isnt refusing carriage, the government is the preventing you from even getting to airport.
Legally you are the one on the hook to pay hotel if government doesn't. Absent a law saying the government assumes the liability, the liability is yours. I don't agree with government not paying, but that is a governmental decision.
Mar 10, 2020, 9:07 pm
#72
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I'm in the Maldives right now. Sadly the St. Regis is not in lockdown so I guess I'll have to leave. Can someone please get Coronavirus here in the next couple days?
Mar 11, 2020, 8:21 am
#74
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Sort-of answering my own question, at least within the US I'd expect to fight back against any attempt to charge that exceeded the government rate (on the theory that, in so many words, I wasn't "on my own reservation" so much as it was a government-commandeered room that I was being housed in) presuming that the hotel accepted said rate (and I would probably push for that even if they didn't). Below that it would get stickier (I'd probably push back against a "high season" government rate as well). Mind you, I don't travel much outside of North America, Europe, and Australia/New Zealand (my time elsewhere, in my lifetime, consists of one night in Bangkok Singapore, one afternoon in Hong Kong, and depending on one's definitions three trips to the Cayman Islands for vacations over the years).
(Mind you, I'd probably also be looking at how to milk the situation in terms of a chain's award program if I'm at a chain. Put a different way, if I've just had to spend two weeks at your hotel, I'd like to knock that off of my end-of-year/lifetime status chase requirements.)
(Mind you, I'd probably also be looking at how to milk the situation in terms of a chain's award program if I'm at a chain. Put a different way, if I've just had to spend two weeks at your hotel, I'd like to knock that off of my end-of-year/lifetime status chase requirements.)
Mar 11, 2020, 8:42 am
#75
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