Continuous upgrade problem using NW miles and my horrible experience
Jul 1, 2009, 5:52 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: EWR
Programs: United 1K/1MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 288
Continuous upgrade problem using NW miles and my horrible experience
I'm wondering if any of you have ever had this same experience and looking for an appropriate place to send an email/letter addressing this issue... Sorry for the long read, but comments welcome.
I'm a former NW Platinum turned CO Platinum and have a large stash of NW miles which I've been using the last few years to upgrade on CO long-haul flights (India, China, etc.). Almost every single time I've used the miles to upgrade (which is done by NW agents), I've had a problem when checking in. When I try to use the CO kiosk, it always informs me that I need to see an agent. The agent then says that there is some sort of an error (something to the effect of the ticket number, which is now controlled by NW not matching something-sorry I don't have the specifics). This always causes a huge delay in checking in at Newark, but somehow the agents are able to clear it up. I always confirm with them that the problem is rectified so I won't face the same problem on my return flight. I also always notify the supervisor (who has usually had to come over to help the agent at this point) that it seems to be a continuous problem and perhaps something that should be addressed.
I ran into the same problem checking in to my flight to China a couple of weeks ago and once again, the agent fixed it and assured me it would be fine for my return. I arrived at Beijing airport at 1:15 yesterday for my 3:45 p.m. flight (early, as I had some errands to take care of at the airport i.e. exchanging money, buying a few last minute gifts). I walked up to the Business First line in Beijing and sure enough, my name was listed. When I went to actually check in, they told me there was a problem with my ticket.
I was brought down to a VERY rude ticket attendant who told me that my "ticket was wrong." He said there was no proof that I had used NW points to upgrade and demanded $100 and 25,000 points to put me in my already-assigned seat. I patiently explained that I had already paid for the seat (and showed the proof of NW points deduction along with my print out from CO showing that I was indeed already upgraded). He said that wasn't good enough and that he couldn't see that I'd paid. After going through this for a few minutes, I told him about previous problems I'd had with a CO upgrade using NW miles and that there seemed to be some sort of disconnect with the two systems. He said it was "not his problem and not his fault" and that I needed to contact NW. At that time, I demanded to see a supervisor.
There was no supervisor available for some time, until finally the supervisor called this man's cell phone and basically did nothing but handle me (i.e. Oh I'm sorry you're having a problem blah, blah). Bottom line, she said there was nothing she could do. In the meantime, I first try to call CO Onepass, which, of course, is closed at that time of the day. I try to call NW, but realize I don't have a non-800 number for them (my mistake not to carry that with me). I am getting quite annoyed by this time, because the staff is doing absolutely nothing to help me and look quite annoyed that I'm wasting their time. I quite nicely tell them that while I understand that it could be either an NW or a CO error (who knows), but it certainly wasn't MY error, nor was it anything that I had the ability to fix. I paid for my ticket (in Y or B class!!!) and I paid for my upgrade and I had no intention of missing this flight. I ask them to try to contact NW, since I don't have access to their systems and can't personally rectify this error (as I was told to do by this man). He uses his cell to call NW in Singapore and hands the phone to me! Of course, the Singapore call center is too busy to handle this. I hand the phone back and tell him that there must be something he can do to assist me. The clincher: he bursts out laughing. Literally laughs in my face. Then starts speaking Chinese with 2 women next to him, all three of whom have been just sitting watching me make call after call to get someone to help. And then they all laugh. Needless to say, I am BEYOND furious at this point, so I tell him that this is about the furthest thing from funny and that I was ashamed of his behavior towards a Platinum member flying Business on his airline. Then, of course, I demanded his name (which seemed to really scare him).
Meanwhile, the minutes are ticking away and I am now the only person left at the check-in area. The agents tell me they've put in a call to someone (who? I don't know) and I need to wait. I finally give up, hand him my credit card and tell him to go ahead and charge me for the upgrade-that I'd get the problem fixed when I got home. He then stated he couldn't do that (???). Tired of waiting and being laughed at, I remember that I have an old NW credit card with a non-800 number on it. I go through them to the NW Elite line and get a WONDERFUL woman who in about 10 mins or so, finally fixes whatever the problem was. I ask her if it was a NW error or a CO error and she says she really doesn't know. Meanwhile, as the boarding pass is being printed out, it is now 3:05 p.m. and boarding had started 10 minutes prior. They tell me that they are holding the flight for me but that I need to run.
Long story short, a truly horrible experience. I had looked forward to doing a little shopping and relaxing in the lounge and needed to exchange money, etc. before this long flight. Instead, I end up boarding as a sweaty, anxious mess with a wad of Chinese cash and what is likely to be a phone bill well in excess of $100. Additionally, I feel that the staff were completely inappropriate in so many ways.
What are your thoughts? Obviously the laughing in the face and the general unwillingness to help was inappropriate. However, was this problem my responsibility to fix (as I did)?
Thanks, as always, for your input.
I'm a former NW Platinum turned CO Platinum and have a large stash of NW miles which I've been using the last few years to upgrade on CO long-haul flights (India, China, etc.). Almost every single time I've used the miles to upgrade (which is done by NW agents), I've had a problem when checking in. When I try to use the CO kiosk, it always informs me that I need to see an agent. The agent then says that there is some sort of an error (something to the effect of the ticket number, which is now controlled by NW not matching something-sorry I don't have the specifics). This always causes a huge delay in checking in at Newark, but somehow the agents are able to clear it up. I always confirm with them that the problem is rectified so I won't face the same problem on my return flight. I also always notify the supervisor (who has usually had to come over to help the agent at this point) that it seems to be a continuous problem and perhaps something that should be addressed.
I ran into the same problem checking in to my flight to China a couple of weeks ago and once again, the agent fixed it and assured me it would be fine for my return. I arrived at Beijing airport at 1:15 yesterday for my 3:45 p.m. flight (early, as I had some errands to take care of at the airport i.e. exchanging money, buying a few last minute gifts). I walked up to the Business First line in Beijing and sure enough, my name was listed. When I went to actually check in, they told me there was a problem with my ticket.
I was brought down to a VERY rude ticket attendant who told me that my "ticket was wrong." He said there was no proof that I had used NW points to upgrade and demanded $100 and 25,000 points to put me in my already-assigned seat. I patiently explained that I had already paid for the seat (and showed the proof of NW points deduction along with my print out from CO showing that I was indeed already upgraded). He said that wasn't good enough and that he couldn't see that I'd paid. After going through this for a few minutes, I told him about previous problems I'd had with a CO upgrade using NW miles and that there seemed to be some sort of disconnect with the two systems. He said it was "not his problem and not his fault" and that I needed to contact NW. At that time, I demanded to see a supervisor.
There was no supervisor available for some time, until finally the supervisor called this man's cell phone and basically did nothing but handle me (i.e. Oh I'm sorry you're having a problem blah, blah). Bottom line, she said there was nothing she could do. In the meantime, I first try to call CO Onepass, which, of course, is closed at that time of the day. I try to call NW, but realize I don't have a non-800 number for them (my mistake not to carry that with me). I am getting quite annoyed by this time, because the staff is doing absolutely nothing to help me and look quite annoyed that I'm wasting their time. I quite nicely tell them that while I understand that it could be either an NW or a CO error (who knows), but it certainly wasn't MY error, nor was it anything that I had the ability to fix. I paid for my ticket (in Y or B class!!!) and I paid for my upgrade and I had no intention of missing this flight. I ask them to try to contact NW, since I don't have access to their systems and can't personally rectify this error (as I was told to do by this man). He uses his cell to call NW in Singapore and hands the phone to me! Of course, the Singapore call center is too busy to handle this. I hand the phone back and tell him that there must be something he can do to assist me. The clincher: he bursts out laughing. Literally laughs in my face. Then starts speaking Chinese with 2 women next to him, all three of whom have been just sitting watching me make call after call to get someone to help. And then they all laugh. Needless to say, I am BEYOND furious at this point, so I tell him that this is about the furthest thing from funny and that I was ashamed of his behavior towards a Platinum member flying Business on his airline. Then, of course, I demanded his name (which seemed to really scare him).
Meanwhile, the minutes are ticking away and I am now the only person left at the check-in area. The agents tell me they've put in a call to someone (who? I don't know) and I need to wait. I finally give up, hand him my credit card and tell him to go ahead and charge me for the upgrade-that I'd get the problem fixed when I got home. He then stated he couldn't do that (???). Tired of waiting and being laughed at, I remember that I have an old NW credit card with a non-800 number on it. I go through them to the NW Elite line and get a WONDERFUL woman who in about 10 mins or so, finally fixes whatever the problem was. I ask her if it was a NW error or a CO error and she says she really doesn't know. Meanwhile, as the boarding pass is being printed out, it is now 3:05 p.m. and boarding had started 10 minutes prior. They tell me that they are holding the flight for me but that I need to run.
Long story short, a truly horrible experience. I had looked forward to doing a little shopping and relaxing in the lounge and needed to exchange money, etc. before this long flight. Instead, I end up boarding as a sweaty, anxious mess with a wad of Chinese cash and what is likely to be a phone bill well in excess of $100. Additionally, I feel that the staff were completely inappropriate in so many ways.
What are your thoughts? Obviously the laughing in the face and the general unwillingness to help was inappropriate. However, was this problem my responsibility to fix (as I did)?
Thanks, as always, for your input.
Jul 1, 2009, 6:04 pm
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Wow
about the only thing I would have done different then what you did was
1- at EWR on the out bound once there was a problem I would have asked the Agent to Please put a note on the PNR that I belong in BF that way if theres a problem on the return they can see whats what
2- seems you decided the BF seat was more important then the shopping or changing of money, otherwise you should have paid the $$ and miles and taken care of it when you got back here.You decided to make the calls and spend the time trying to fix it all, instead of doing the errands you wanted to
Im not saying the staff was right in what they did, only that you should have done things before leaving EWR to begin with. that doesnt excuse what you said you went thru.
as for reinbursement from CO for the calls Good Luck getting it, Id try to but wouldnt count on getting anything.
about the only thing I would have done different then what you did was
1- at EWR on the out bound once there was a problem I would have asked the Agent to Please put a note on the PNR that I belong in BF that way if theres a problem on the return they can see whats what
2- seems you decided the BF seat was more important then the shopping or changing of money, otherwise you should have paid the $$ and miles and taken care of it when you got back here.You decided to make the calls and spend the time trying to fix it all, instead of doing the errands you wanted to
Im not saying the staff was right in what they did, only that you should have done things before leaving EWR to begin with. that doesnt excuse what you said you went thru.
as for reinbursement from CO for the calls Good Luck getting it, Id try to but wouldnt count on getting anything.
Jul 1, 2009, 6:14 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: EWR
Programs: United 1K/1MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 288
Wow
about the only thing I would have done different then what you did was
1- at EWR on the out bound once there was a problem I would have asked the Agent to Please put a note on the PNR that I belong in BF that way if theres a problem on the return they can see whats what
2- seems you decided the BF seat was more important then the shopping or changing of money, otherwise you should have paid the $$ and miles and taken care of it when you got back here.You decided to make the calls and spend the time trying to fix it all, instead of doing the errands you wanted to
Im not saying the staff was right in what they did, only that you should have done things before leaving EWR to begin with. that doesnt excuse what you said you went thru.
as for reinbursement from CO for the calls Good Luck getting it, Id try to but wouldnt count on getting anything.
about the only thing I would have done different then what you did was
1- at EWR on the out bound once there was a problem I would have asked the Agent to Please put a note on the PNR that I belong in BF that way if theres a problem on the return they can see whats what
2- seems you decided the BF seat was more important then the shopping or changing of money, otherwise you should have paid the $$ and miles and taken care of it when you got back here.You decided to make the calls and spend the time trying to fix it all, instead of doing the errands you wanted to
Im not saying the staff was right in what they did, only that you should have done things before leaving EWR to begin with. that doesnt excuse what you said you went thru.
as for reinbursement from CO for the calls Good Luck getting it, Id try to but wouldnt count on getting anything.
a-love to have this not happen again (well, in the couple more months that it could happen before NW goes away) and b-just make sure that noone else gets treated that way. I'm an experienced traveler, which is the only reason I think I even got on that flight at all, as they could have cared less about making it happen. I try to imagine some of my friends or family, who rarely fly, and this would be a disaster for them. I was practically in tears out of frustration by the end of everything.
As for fixing the prob in Newark, I did verify that it was rectified and she confirmed the same. In all other previous experiences, the return flight has been fine after the EWR agent fixed things. I went to co.com and made sure I was still listed in my seat the day before. So I don't think there was any reason for me to suspect any other probs.
I did bust out the credit card-twice actually. Once to try to buy the upgrade and have the miles deducted and once (out of frustration) to offer to buy a whole new damn ticket (in economy), cause I was so fed up and not staying there another night. But alas, he told me he couldn't do that-that it wasn't that easy (which was interesting news coming from a ticket agent).
Last edited by ecosse3; Jul 1, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Jul 1, 2009, 6:17 pm
#4
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MFE / SAT
Programs: UA Premier Silver, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 3,681
I hope you got this TAs name to report him. If not, send in a description and hopefully CO can locate this individual and act accordingly.
Jul 1, 2009, 6:22 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: EWR
Programs: United 1K/1MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 288
Oh I've got it alright. In fact (since he didn't have a card), I made him write it on my paper for me. He looked TERRIFIED when I did that, as he realized, I think, how inappropriate he had been. From that point forward he tried to at least pretend he was interested (i.e. he said it wasn't that he didn't believe I didn't pay for the upgrade, that he didn't ask for my credit card earlier to make me pay since he did believe me, etc.).
Jul 1, 2009, 7:44 pm
#6
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: retired from SFO Terminal 3
Posts: 7,437
I am going to guess that the problem with your ticket was that NW still had control of it. All that means is that CO needs to pull the ticket over to CO's side, to show that you are holding an e-tkt.
There is no reason to make you wait because you are holding a reservation and it's just an internal ticketing function that can be done later. But if the agent is not use to seeing this or has never seen this than I can see where they might question you about it.
If this ever happens to you again, instruct the agent to call CO Res and they can do the research while you wait and fix the problem for the check in agent.
If you do this again I strongly suggest you contact CO Res a few days before you leave for your trip, to make sure that everything is ok on the CO side. We have a very good Help Desk in Res.
There is no reason to make you wait because you are holding a reservation and it's just an internal ticketing function that can be done later. But if the agent is not use to seeing this or has never seen this than I can see where they might question you about it.
If this ever happens to you again, instruct the agent to call CO Res and they can do the research while you wait and fix the problem for the check in agent.
If you do this again I strongly suggest you contact CO Res a few days before you leave for your trip, to make sure that everything is ok on the CO side. We have a very good Help Desk in Res.
Jul 1, 2009, 8:11 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: EWR
Programs: United 1K/1MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 288
I am going to guess that the problem with your ticket was that NW still had control of it. All that means is that CO needs to pull the ticket over to CO's side, to show that you are holding an e-tkt.
There is no reason to make you wait because you are holding a reservation and it's just an internal ticketing function that can be done later. But if the agent is not use to seeing this or has never seen this than I can see where they might question you about it.
If this ever happens to you again, instruct the agent to call CO Res and they can do the research while you wait and fix the problem for the check in agent.
If you do this again I strongly suggest you contact CO Res a few days before you leave for your trip, to make sure that everything is ok on the CO side. We have a very good Help Desk in Res.
There is no reason to make you wait because you are holding a reservation and it's just an internal ticketing function that can be done later. But if the agent is not use to seeing this or has never seen this than I can see where they might question you about it.
If this ever happens to you again, instruct the agent to call CO Res and they can do the research while you wait and fix the problem for the check in agent.
If you do this again I strongly suggest you contact CO Res a few days before you leave for your trip, to make sure that everything is ok on the CO side. We have a very good Help Desk in Res.
In the interest of not making my initial post any longer than it already was, I didn't post our entire back and forth. I did, however, immediately ask him to contact CO reservations. He told me he couldn't?? He handed me his phone at one point to talk to a CO ticket office in Beijing. They also said they couldn't help me...I needed to talk to NW. Again-I was left wondering why I was being forced to rectify this problem on my own. When he told me to call NW, I asked to use his phone to call a local number (40084008 or something like that), as I didn't have the correct country and city codes handy and he actually looked angry with me.
It's not worth actually getting into the whole back and forth. My main point is not to get someone in trouble or to demand any compensation or anything like that. I just need to make CO aware of this problem so that it doesn't happen to others (whether it be with NW upgrades now-as has happened to me almost every time I've used them, or with *alliance ones in the future) and to hopefully just let them know what is proper treatment of customers and what is not. I'm a regular traveler who was dumb enough not to have a CO or NW non 800 number available to call. I just happened to be lucky enough to have a credit card that transferred me through to someone who could actually help. I was frantically searching my blackberry for phone numbers, but you all know how slow that process is and ultimately you end up with 800 numbers. In the end, I solved my own problem. But I was lucky. The agents did NOTHING to help. Another 2 minutes and without that credit card collect number to put me through to someone to fix an apparently simple problem, I'd be sending this message from Beijing (spending my money on hotels and new airline tickets). Just really disappointing service for me.
I have learned so much from you folks here and I'm certainly not a big-league traveler like many of you. I'm probably very insignificant to CO as a whole. I just scrape by as a Plat every year and though I almost always fly Business, it's all due to free or mileage upgrades. I work for a non-profit (gasp) and truly am thankful for the opportunities of upgrade afforded to me and certainly would not ever have any unrealistic expectations of over-the-top service owed to me. However, I was honestly pretty humiliated by this whole thing. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive, but I admit to tearing up at one point. I do truly like CO, but was, and continue to be, disheartened by this experience. Since it wasn't the first time it happened to me, I imagine that it's happened to others as well. I'd just like to make sure that someone is aware so that, in the future, it doesn't and that people who use a good percentage of their yearly points to upgrade and to "enjoy the experience" aren't forced to tears, running for their gate.
Last edited by ecosse3; Jul 1, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Jul 1, 2009, 10:02 pm
#8
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: CO Gold; SPG Gold***; AvisFirst;
Posts: 3,970
Personally, I'd try to OLCI. If... or in your case when it fails, then I'd call co.com support. They're pretty good at sorting these things out. Not ideal, but at least it'd be taken care of long before you get to the airport.
At least this problem solves itself after October 24th
At least this problem solves itself after October 24th
Jul 5, 2009, 7:40 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: EWR
Programs: United 1K/1MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 288
Personally, I'd try to OLCI. If... or in your case when it fails, then I'd call co.com support. They're pretty good at sorting these things out. Not ideal, but at least it'd be taken care of long before you get to the airport.
At least this problem solves itself after October 24th
At least this problem solves itself after October 24th
Jul 5, 2009, 8:17 pm
#10
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Central NJ (Usually EWR but sometimes PHL)
Programs: UA-1K w/2MM & lifetime U-Club; Marriott-Lifetime Titanium; IHG-Diamond; National-Exec. Elite
Posts: 2,553
Jul 5, 2009, 8:27 pm
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,539
I don't usually use miles to upgrade, but have had lots of problems with CO award tickets, and their evil spawn, CM. I just figure if it's an award to not cut it too close. Things have always gotten sorted out with CO. Not always the case with CM, but I got some sympathy miles.
Jul 5, 2009, 8:28 pm
#12
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 749
Sorry to say but what do you expect from an airline that runs everything to the bone, including its outsations and FF club. The NW/CO operations are a joke worldwide and have been so for many years and in my opinion and have done nothing to improve using the cost cutting excuse to back up their horrible service. The whole ST operation has always played 2nd fiddle to OW and is full of members who earn their miles flying on cheap tickets with cheap airlines. What I mean by that is that OW knows that you earn 150 000 miles in a year, these miles have cost you a lot more to fly than 150 000 miles on ST carriers and the old saying you get what you paid for kicks in when you need service. I have two clients who between them fly from West Coast USA 15/20 times a year in Business class on NW/CO and I finally got them to switch to CX and they will never go back to using any American based carrier or ST members. The service in the air and on the ground is way beyond what they had in years of flying NW/CO
Jul 5, 2009, 8:31 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Rewards - LTPP
Posts: 4,240
non toll free elite #
I wish CO would put a non toll free phone number on the elite cards. I have needed it several times while overseas and can't call TFs from my calling card. I have a TX number for reservations, but an elite line number would be great. Since I'm sure most of us are calling from cell phones anyway, why not put one on the cards?? If someone has one, please PM it to me, I don't want anyone getting their panties in a ruffle if it's posted here.
Jul 5, 2009, 9:27 pm
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: EWR
Programs: United 1K/1MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 288
Oh...yeah...(duh on my part, thanks). Strange...now that you mentioned it, I've NEVER once been sent the email to OLCI for any of the tix that had probs (but always receive it for all other flights). The couple of times I tried, it said I couldn't. I always assumed that it was because they had to verify my visa (as the times I've tried, I was going to India or China). Hmmm...
Still wondering though if anyone has an email addy I could send my report to?
Thanks!
Still wondering though if anyone has an email addy I could send my report to?
Thanks!
Jul 5, 2009, 9:29 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: EWR
Programs: United 1K/1MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 288
I wish CO would put a non toll free phone number on the elite cards. I have needed it several times while overseas and can't call TFs from my calling card. I have a TX number for reservations, but an elite line number would be great. Since I'm sure most of us are calling from cell phones anyway, why not put one on the cards?? If someone has one, please PM it to me, I don't want anyone getting their panties in a ruffle if it's posted here.