Q & A Session with Larry & Jeff
#1
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Q & A Session with Larry & Jeff
Here are the questions and answers:
1) Why no E+?
-JS - Not going to happen. We keep our company running well because we have a very simple product, and adding the new zone creates a new product that makes optimizing the system harder.
2) Upgrades are easier on other carriers. What is CO doing to keep Elite members loyal?
-LK - More F seats in the planes. Looking to use the 739s w/20F on the TransCon routes where there is premium demand. The average elite upgrade rate is around 65%+ and is staying static. They're also looking at potentially more F seats on the 738s to the mid-cabin lav, but no promises.
3) Will CO consider removing the 50% EQM rule?
- JS - No. Really, it is good for you. It aligns status to value to Continental, so CO gets the benefits that they want.
4) Other airlines are adding RJs with F. CO is adding CHQ. What gives?
- LK - Scope clause adds issues for the RJ with 70 seats. They probably have a need for 20-30 of them, not hundreds, and the add-on impact of a new fleet type and aditional pilot type would be cost-prohibitive. We don't see this as a critical issue for CO right now, so we're looking at it, but we're not going to act for the next few years.
On the CHQ issue, there is a big focus on value for everything. With all the bankruptcies in the industry the RJ industry got a lot cheaper, but CO still had a contract. They got out of the ERJ contract and picked up CHQ. The CRJ-200 is a short-term lease, but is more fuel efficient than the ERJs, so we're not sure if it is the right choice. Using CHQ also forced some of the upgrades to B84, including the coverd walk to the gates. CHQ completion factor is 95%+. On-time is ~70%, and looking to push higher. Really looking to grow mainline overall and replace RJs with 737s.
1) Why no E+?
-JS - Not going to happen. We keep our company running well because we have a very simple product, and adding the new zone creates a new product that makes optimizing the system harder.
2) Upgrades are easier on other carriers. What is CO doing to keep Elite members loyal?
-LK - More F seats in the planes. Looking to use the 739s w/20F on the TransCon routes where there is premium demand. The average elite upgrade rate is around 65%+ and is staying static. They're also looking at potentially more F seats on the 738s to the mid-cabin lav, but no promises.
3) Will CO consider removing the 50% EQM rule?
- JS - No. Really, it is good for you. It aligns status to value to Continental, so CO gets the benefits that they want.
4) Other airlines are adding RJs with F. CO is adding CHQ. What gives?
- LK - Scope clause adds issues for the RJ with 70 seats. They probably have a need for 20-30 of them, not hundreds, and the add-on impact of a new fleet type and aditional pilot type would be cost-prohibitive. We don't see this as a critical issue for CO right now, so we're looking at it, but we're not going to act for the next few years.
On the CHQ issue, there is a big focus on value for everything. With all the bankruptcies in the industry the RJ industry got a lot cheaper, but CO still had a contract. They got out of the ERJ contract and picked up CHQ. The CRJ-200 is a short-term lease, but is more fuel efficient than the ERJs, so we're not sure if it is the right choice. Using CHQ also forced some of the upgrades to B84, including the coverd walk to the gates. CHQ completion factor is 95%+. On-time is ~70%, and looking to push higher. Really looking to grow mainline overall and replace RJs with 737s.
#2
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More info
5) What is CO doing to improve the J product and remain competitive?
- JS - When we ae something to announce, we will announce it, but it will not be vaporware. On the 787 "[we] will LOVE the new product!" Most other announced options don't actually exist yet, so just remember that when complaining.
6) What about SWUs?
- LK - We think BF upgrades day of departure are more important that SWUs. Nothing is off the table, but right now the balance is, in their view, the correct balance. They're looking for rewarding their customers in a way that also benefits CO.
7) How is CO dealing with the EWR ATC and terminal space issues, plus needing additional CSAs during irrops?
- JS - CO is pushing within the government to try to get Congress to implement user fees to help push ATC. "There are a lot of private jet users that claim that they are 'marginal users.' Bulls*&t!" (Yes, that was a direct quote). "As we grow Newark we are not going to be growing departures but rather growing airplane sizes to accomplish it. Also planning on lots of construction in EWR over the next 10 years. The irrops will be partially addressed via more kiosks behind security, so users will be able to see their revised itins without having to go to the service desk, which should help prevent missing the flight that you were already protected on?
8) What are the growth plans for 2008/09?
- LK - CLE is growing with CDG in 2008, and 2009 shoould see a lot of West coast options. Lots of expected up-guage expected. Mainline growth in CLE is expected to be 40%+. CLE is not going to be a reliever for EWR, since EWR is only really bad in irrops, but what CLE is really going to do is add capacity for real routes that are focused on using CLE. In 2008 CO will net ~15 737s, but no widebodies coming in 2008, and with LHR and BOM things are tight. With the 25 787s coming online starting in 2009, Shangai will be part of the plan, either on the 787 or shifting 777s and moving 787s elsewhere. From 2010-2013 22 firm deliveries and a "bunch of options." Maybe Middle-East, or S. Pac. The 787s are going to make jet lag issues much better.
In short, mostly focus on CLE, add Shanghai and some narrow-body to Latin America, and then big growth after 2009.
9) What is being done to help make co.com better?
- JS - Lots, mostly with listening to FTers. The beta program is coming soon (ETA mid-October)
10) Why can't CO put their own personnel in the partner lounges in places like BOS and LGW?
- LK - Partly a real estate issue. The other part is just that moving into a new gate area is a big change, and CO is looking at a lot of options, but the partners don't always want to allow CO reps inside, unlike ORD, which were built that way. In places where that can't happen, CO is also looking at other options for CSRs inside security and SkyTeam lounges in places where it maks sense to build them as a team.
11) What is CO doing to avoid stranding pax for hours during delays?
- JS - "Everything we can." It is almost always better to get out of the gate, into the ballpark (in EWR) and manage the planes out there, incuding deplaning pax with air stairs as necessary and catering and managing the lavs. Most pax usually want to just wait and go, so they want to do that.
12) Still a lot of talk about mergers. What is CO's feel about the situation?
- LK - We have a plan, which is to stay independant, and we think that it the right way to go with the business environment the way it is today. We start with employees and pax and then go back to make the shareholders happy, not the other way around. And mergers disrupt the employee and pax base, so we don't like that so much. In many cases CO loses out on corporate business because the network isn't as fully developed as others. CO would love to grow it, but not via merger.
- JS - When we ae something to announce, we will announce it, but it will not be vaporware. On the 787 "[we] will LOVE the new product!" Most other announced options don't actually exist yet, so just remember that when complaining.
6) What about SWUs?
- LK - We think BF upgrades day of departure are more important that SWUs. Nothing is off the table, but right now the balance is, in their view, the correct balance. They're looking for rewarding their customers in a way that also benefits CO.
7) How is CO dealing with the EWR ATC and terminal space issues, plus needing additional CSAs during irrops?
- JS - CO is pushing within the government to try to get Congress to implement user fees to help push ATC. "There are a lot of private jet users that claim that they are 'marginal users.' Bulls*&t!" (Yes, that was a direct quote). "As we grow Newark we are not going to be growing departures but rather growing airplane sizes to accomplish it. Also planning on lots of construction in EWR over the next 10 years. The irrops will be partially addressed via more kiosks behind security, so users will be able to see their revised itins without having to go to the service desk, which should help prevent missing the flight that you were already protected on?
8) What are the growth plans for 2008/09?
- LK - CLE is growing with CDG in 2008, and 2009 shoould see a lot of West coast options. Lots of expected up-guage expected. Mainline growth in CLE is expected to be 40%+. CLE is not going to be a reliever for EWR, since EWR is only really bad in irrops, but what CLE is really going to do is add capacity for real routes that are focused on using CLE. In 2008 CO will net ~15 737s, but no widebodies coming in 2008, and with LHR and BOM things are tight. With the 25 787s coming online starting in 2009, Shangai will be part of the plan, either on the 787 or shifting 777s and moving 787s elsewhere. From 2010-2013 22 firm deliveries and a "bunch of options." Maybe Middle-East, or S. Pac. The 787s are going to make jet lag issues much better.
In short, mostly focus on CLE, add Shanghai and some narrow-body to Latin America, and then big growth after 2009.
9) What is being done to help make co.com better?
- JS - Lots, mostly with listening to FTers. The beta program is coming soon (ETA mid-October)
10) Why can't CO put their own personnel in the partner lounges in places like BOS and LGW?
- LK - Partly a real estate issue. The other part is just that moving into a new gate area is a big change, and CO is looking at a lot of options, but the partners don't always want to allow CO reps inside, unlike ORD, which were built that way. In places where that can't happen, CO is also looking at other options for CSRs inside security and SkyTeam lounges in places where it maks sense to build them as a team.
11) What is CO doing to avoid stranding pax for hours during delays?
- JS - "Everything we can." It is almost always better to get out of the gate, into the ballpark (in EWR) and manage the planes out there, incuding deplaning pax with air stairs as necessary and catering and managing the lavs. Most pax usually want to just wait and go, so they want to do that.
12) Still a lot of talk about mergers. What is CO's feel about the situation?
- LK - We have a plan, which is to stay independant, and we think that it the right way to go with the business environment the way it is today. We start with employees and pax and then go back to make the shareholders happy, not the other way around. And mergers disrupt the employee and pax base, so we don't like that so much. In many cases CO loses out on corporate business because the network isn't as fully developed as others. CO would love to grow it, but not via merger.
#3
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13) Is CO going to 3-3-3 for the 787
- JS - Yes. Absolutely. It will be a much more comfortable plane in general. The 3-3-3 will be ~17.5 seat width.
14) What about in-seat entertainment/Internet for domestic?
- LK - Yes! We are trying to do it, and were not sure if it will be just free BlackBerry/SMS only or ~$10 full Internet or something else, but it is something that is in the works. LK is more cautious than we are to make such a thing available, 'cause he thinks (probably rightly so) that the rest of the world isn't as inclined as we are. Also, it would probably be either something like LiveTV OR Internet, but not both, since the two would compete with each other for customers making neither particularly profitable. Some of the 739s coming in to the fleet next year will not have the old tape-based system, but the decision will be a fleet-wide decision, and it will be made in the near future. But there is big cost to deliver it.
- JS - Yes. Absolutely. It will be a much more comfortable plane in general. The 3-3-3 will be ~17.5 seat width.
14) What about in-seat entertainment/Internet for domestic?
- LK - Yes! We are trying to do it, and were not sure if it will be just free BlackBerry/SMS only or ~$10 full Internet or something else, but it is something that is in the works. LK is more cautious than we are to make such a thing available, 'cause he thinks (probably rightly so) that the rest of the world isn't as inclined as we are. Also, it would probably be either something like LiveTV OR Internet, but not both, since the two would compete with each other for customers making neither particularly profitable. Some of the 739s coming in to the fleet next year will not have the old tape-based system, but the decision will be a fleet-wide decision, and it will be made in the near future. But there is big cost to deliver it.
#4
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Questions from the crowd now.
What is CO's perspective on carbon offset?
-JS - CO would like to be better, as they spend $152/second on fuel, and CO is 30%+ more efficient now than they were 10 years ago. EU is considering taxing airlines for emissions as well, so that sort of thing is a big issue. JS thinks that the program that CO chose (and the set is going to grow) offers an expanded set of options in the offset program. That being said, uptake on the CO offset bit on co.com is pretty low, so apparently the passengers don't actually care all that much.
What benefits might change for International elites?
- LK - Not much except for the same day BF upgrades coming back. CO's product is stronger they think.
Will Open Skies change things?
- LK - CO has had rights to go to most of the EU from EWR as much as they want. Open Skies will be a LHR issue, sine if it isn't coming from EWR/CLE/IAH it doesn't make sense to push lots of TATL from the non-hubs.
3/29 to 3/30 will be the inaugural flight to LHR from IAH. CO will get a slot, and LK is confident that CO can get more than the one slot. LGW service will continue, especially from EWR.
Is the FAM program still "sucking you dry" in the premium cabin?
-JS - We cannot comment on issues of security, but "when FAMs get on the planes they choose their seats, don't pay a penny and choose to sit in F."
What about recognizing elites on the RJs with something like a drink chit?
- LK - Maybe.
With all the new entertainment systems, any chance of "Channel 9?"
- LK - Considering it.
What about EU expansion, such as MUC, VIE, other Central Europe?
- LK - Probably, but we're out of 767s and the 757s are at their limits, so airplane constrained. The 787s will be used first in areas like middle-east, Africa and S. Pac. Central Europe is probably closer to 2013. CO is not planning on growing too quickly (~6% annually is ideal) to keep the quality consistent and high.
What is CO's perspective on carbon offset?
-JS - CO would like to be better, as they spend $152/second on fuel, and CO is 30%+ more efficient now than they were 10 years ago. EU is considering taxing airlines for emissions as well, so that sort of thing is a big issue. JS thinks that the program that CO chose (and the set is going to grow) offers an expanded set of options in the offset program. That being said, uptake on the CO offset bit on co.com is pretty low, so apparently the passengers don't actually care all that much.
What benefits might change for International elites?
- LK - Not much except for the same day BF upgrades coming back. CO's product is stronger they think.
Will Open Skies change things?
- LK - CO has had rights to go to most of the EU from EWR as much as they want. Open Skies will be a LHR issue, sine if it isn't coming from EWR/CLE/IAH it doesn't make sense to push lots of TATL from the non-hubs.
3/29 to 3/30 will be the inaugural flight to LHR from IAH. CO will get a slot, and LK is confident that CO can get more than the one slot. LGW service will continue, especially from EWR.
Is the FAM program still "sucking you dry" in the premium cabin?
-JS - We cannot comment on issues of security, but "when FAMs get on the planes they choose their seats, don't pay a penny and choose to sit in F."
What about recognizing elites on the RJs with something like a drink chit?
- LK - Maybe.
With all the new entertainment systems, any chance of "Channel 9?"
- LK - Considering it.
What about EU expansion, such as MUC, VIE, other Central Europe?
- LK - Probably, but we're out of 767s and the 757s are at their limits, so airplane constrained. The 787s will be used first in areas like middle-east, Africa and S. Pac. Central Europe is probably closer to 2013. CO is not planning on growing too quickly (~6% annually is ideal) to keep the quality consistent and high.
#5
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Are there any still close enough options that the 752s can be used for in Spain or France?
- LK - With the LHR build-up and China, we're out of 752s to us for things like that.
Will ATC reform come quickly enough to avoid flight rationing/slot control?
- LK - Airspace is way bigger an issue than arports, but just being there cause tons of problems. Very Light Jets are going to cause increasin issues in airspace around S. Florida and BOS with the air taxi companies. The VLJs have the potential to muck things up even more.
Premium wines in the PC are great. Can that be ported into the airplanes?
- LK - Probably not since the margin is harder since a bottle is wasted once it is opened, and they don't want to waste all that good wine. JS volunteered to go out to the hub to help "clean up" if such a system is implemented.
Consider a bulk pack of tickets for a city pair for commuters?
- LK - We have considered it, and continue to, but it is hard on the technology and making it work easily is pretty difficult. And the expected volume is pretty low, so not a high priority.
Cell phone use in flight?
- LK - Would probably enable it for ony short calls (3-5 minutes). Would block VoIP on Internet, and it would be managed by the system to enforce it. And ~25% of the room agreed to pay to block cell phone use on the planes.
West coast expansion?
- LK - We've tried a few things and not all of them have worked very well. The only way to be successful N-S on the W coast would cost a lot of money 'cause we have to go in full-speed, and we're focusing on Asia and LHR instead of the W. coast, at least for now. If a lot of gate space showed up, maybe, but other things are higher priorities.
That's all folks.
Larry says thanks. "We want your feedback. We want your insight. We appreciate this group." "We are going to work with our employees. We're going to listen to you. And we're going to make sure that when there are bumps in the road, they aren't systemic."
- LK - With the LHR build-up and China, we're out of 752s to us for things like that.
Will ATC reform come quickly enough to avoid flight rationing/slot control?
- LK - Airspace is way bigger an issue than arports, but just being there cause tons of problems. Very Light Jets are going to cause increasin issues in airspace around S. Florida and BOS with the air taxi companies. The VLJs have the potential to muck things up even more.
Premium wines in the PC are great. Can that be ported into the airplanes?
- LK - Probably not since the margin is harder since a bottle is wasted once it is opened, and they don't want to waste all that good wine. JS volunteered to go out to the hub to help "clean up" if such a system is implemented.
Consider a bulk pack of tickets for a city pair for commuters?
- LK - We have considered it, and continue to, but it is hard on the technology and making it work easily is pretty difficult. And the expected volume is pretty low, so not a high priority.
Cell phone use in flight?
- LK - Would probably enable it for ony short calls (3-5 minutes). Would block VoIP on Internet, and it would be managed by the system to enforce it. And ~25% of the room agreed to pay to block cell phone use on the planes.
West coast expansion?
- LK - We've tried a few things and not all of them have worked very well. The only way to be successful N-S on the W coast would cost a lot of money 'cause we have to go in full-speed, and we're focusing on Asia and LHR instead of the W. coast, at least for now. If a lot of gate space showed up, maybe, but other things are higher priorities.
That's all folks.
Larry says thanks. "We want your feedback. We want your insight. We appreciate this group." "We are going to work with our employees. We're going to listen to you. And we're going to make sure that when there are bumps in the road, they aren't systemic."
#6
Join Date: Jan 2005
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So going from a 17.1" to a 17.5" seat width on the 787 is going to be a "much more comfortable plane in general” That’s putting quite a bit of stock in the increased humidity and mood lighting. Looks like they didn't mention the seat pitch, but I could only imagine what they are planning and thinking how comfortable it's going to be. Of course none of the CO brass who decided this will most likely ever have to sit for 8+ hours in one of these seats, since they will be in the front of the cabin.
I have never met Larry or Jeff and from what most people on this forum say who have, they both seem very likeable, but they do come across as such bean counters and in some cases, such as the comfort level their Y cabin seating, completely out of touch with reality.
CO is doing well but in the next 5 years many of their competitors are investing in new planes and upgrading existing ones. While I think they will improve their first class cabin, they are going to have a hard time competing on both domestic and international routes with the same (or nearly the same) uncomfortable Y class seating.
Last edited by Xyzzy; Oct 1, 2007 at 12:03 pm Reason: Fixed UBB code
#7
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Also planning on lots of construction in EWR over the next 10 years.
Also sprucing up the landside would be nice.
#8
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To me, the thing I'm most surprised to hear are these two words: South Pac. Prior to this event, anytime one ask about resuming US-Australia flights (not including GUM-CNS), the answer was always a firm NO.
What I hear today was a huge surprise.
What I hear today was a huge surprise.
Last edited by rkkwan; Sep 29, 2007 at 11:50 pm
#9
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#10

Join Date: Oct 2002
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and I believe I heard them talk about the "south pac" twice too...very intriguing.
I found responses like this amusing.....I thought the real truth was more about stuffing as many paying bodies in the main cabin as possible and something like E+ would prohibit that
#11
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: EWR
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sbm12 thanks for the detailed report.
#13




Join Date: Mar 2001
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Australia
I heard Australia mentioned many times over the 'Do ...which is a big departure from the "no, we'll never return to Australia" that was uttered at the last 2 big Do's. I guess the 787 gives them the range and revenue they need to consider such destination(s).
But even so, as Qantas and United roll-out lie-flat suites for service Down Under, I don't know just how competitive CO can be with its premium cabin ...even with a complete BF overhall on a new plane type.
But even so, as Qantas and United roll-out lie-flat suites for service Down Under, I don't know just how competitive CO can be with its premium cabin ...even with a complete BF overhall on a new plane type.
#14
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I am thrilled to hear them talk about South Pacific in promising terms. Skyteam is so thin down there. I think that's great.
#15
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Suck it down, hard. You should prepare for the worst.
Suck it down, hard. You should prepare for the worst.

