suitcasejockey

If a CO plat runs up let's say, 1 million miles, gets lifetime status, and never rides CO again. I suspect that is their worst case scenario. That seems to be their fear of things - "Once the guy gets lifetime status he's going to go somewhere else, we've removed his incentive to fly with CO." Right?

Maybe. There will surely be a couple people that do this. But wouldn't they do this anyway? If they were going to earn miles towards another carrier's status, they'd do it anyway. And CO is going to lose more of this group's business by NOT offering them this status while every competitor is.

There will be another group who will continue on business as usual. I would more than likely fit in here. If I had lifetime status I think I would feel closer bond with the company and maybe even take them more.

It would just be nice to not have to worry - if I get laid off and start with another company next year, I have to start at 0 again... If I get sick and don't qualify this year I have to start at 0 again... These are totally legit concerns. Anyone who is playing this FF game has them.

I can say this from my personal experience in logic. If I lost my CO plat status accidentally one year, I probably would not fly them from Jan 1. Just common sense, if I lost every benefit I had with CO, the baggage weight, the priority boarding, the priority security lines, the power ports in the seats, etc., I'd view CO not as the people I need to reimpress, but I would view them as a bunch of ungrateful "what have you done for me lately's" who went out of their way to take away my privileges and never did care about me. I'd pick another carrier. Just common sense. We've had great times, but you forget me, forget you.

I avoid airlines I have no status in. If I expire on CO, CO gets to join that group of people, and I'll stick with an airline that gives me SOMETHING.

Lifetime status is a way of smoothing out consumer dissonance among your best customers. You can feel free to quote me on that in letters to CO brass.

But the best part about their worst case scenario, where the guy earns lifetime and stops taking CO? Giving that guy lifetime COST CO NOTHING. If he doesn't fly, he doesn't receive the benefits. Hence, CO pays no cost. Well actually the plastic cards are change, mailing them is change, but hey, if you've spent enough time and money on CO, what's $10 over someone's lifetime to show them you care?

You want to increase internal sales? Try actually upgrading people. I have been doing PATHETIC on my upgrades this year, which is why I have intentionally cut my CO travel down to roughly half what it should have been. Maybe if you see the coach cabin in an intl is PACKED and bf is empty, pull a couple plats up. What did it cost you? Take care of those who take care of you.

CAL PHL FLYER

Again..CO has allready offered the Lifetime Elite program and it doesnt work for them..They can generate revenue by offering benefits to those who generate revenue..They offer the opportunity for the customer to generate revenue year to year and then reward the loyalty by offering benefits if the revenue goal is achieved for the year..Offering benefits to those who fail to give them a steady stream of business is foolish on thier part..Although Im sure it would be nice for you to enjoy First Class for life..It just doesnt fit a good business model if you are not offering CO high revenue for life..They can use the First Class seats you might be upgrading to with lifetime benefits (and only flying a few times a year on cheap tickets)to reward current frequent fliers who are making them the most money.@:-)

Scott6067

If I recall, the Lifetime Elite was introduced and used as a means to intice people back to flying CO after the bankruptcy issues and other service concerns of the early 1990s. Althought the program was withdrawal, I think it had more to do with the fact that the number of people flying had regained to previous levels and thus no need for the program.

I like the idea of having an infinite elite program and would find it very beneficial. It would also push me to want to buy a lifetime club membership to go with the lifetime status.

Something that hasn't been discusse is the fact that some of these programs allow you to earn Lifetime benefits without having to step foot on a plane. AA's benefits can be earned through strictly a high CC usage and thus the reason so many people have gamed the previous promotions that they have had. To me this is the main reason to have a lifetime program developed on miles and/or dollars paid to the airline for flights as it is more representative of how that customer may potential benefit the airline.

Perhaps we could have a benefits section at the DO in September and work with CO on brainstorming so new and innovative benefits of the elite program.

As far as people earning the LIfetime status and not using it. That would simply be "wallet candy" as Larry refers to it and thus I wouldn't see why they would object to such a thing.

cova

Until this year, Infinites did not get a new card every year. Only when the design changed - was a new card mailed. Once I had to call to get a replacement - since mine wore out. This is the first year that the same card stock was used - hence the card shows the faint 2007 on the side. So they will have to mail out new cards next year as well.

The Elite number is always the same - hence no reason to reprint the card. The regular Plat card is reissued - since the phone number changes every year.

When program was discontinued - I asked and was told the reason was that once some folks achieved the status their flying dropped - ie they flew other carriers to get/keep status on other carriers as well.

Although mileage runs would likely drop if someone achieved lifetime - but then a mileage run flight is likely not profitable for the airlines anyway.

Weatherboy

I don't understand the business logic of not offering a lifetime of benefits for a long-term traveler "because they may "defect" to another carrier and earn status there." If the perks of a lifetime elite program are solely soft benefits like Elite Access access and part of the elite upgrade engine, if a person stops flying CO all of a sudden, then there's no cost to CO since that passenger isn't using the perks. So to be competitive with the other carriers, why would CO not have a program that would cost so little to implement?

Whether you like it or not, even the most obsessed FlyerTalker will likely reduce air travel as one ages. There's going to come a time when our wallets or our bodies won't be able to rack up 75k+ miles/year on a carrier. I think there comes a time when we'll just be flying a few times a year if we fly at all. And its at those times your lifetime of loyalty should be rewarded.

Also remember the Infinite Platinum program implemented years ago is completely different than what's being proposed here. That program rewarded the ranks with a lifetime of benefits who had a fairly simple mileage goal to reach. Here, we're talking about a much more agressive goal/reward program in which people need to be extremely loyal over a much longer time ---in which there's time to truly measure one's loyalty. If you've earned Platinum status for 10 consecutive years, you've proved your loyalty. And if you've flown millions of miles, you've also proved your loyalty. Such loyalty should be rewarded ...especially if the rest of the competitive landscape is.

MilesDavis

With regard to losing business once Lifetime status is acheived, CO also must consider the business that would be gained now by people being attracted to the program.

I think a Lifetime program would be a very easy way to keep some of the 75K+ Plats that spread travel miles out across other programs.

ContinentalFan

Good points. Again, look at the Delta program where Platinum Elite requires 4,000,000 MQM's--the CO equivalent would be 4,000,000 EQM. I focus on Platinum, since that's the only level, IMHO, that has value.

How many people would earn PE lifetime status? Probably very few. I would guess a few percent of the PE FFer's hit the lifetime level. It means flying, at a minimum, 2.67 million miles. That's close to 400 trips to Europe, on full fare, from the east coast, or 600 on discounted economy (1,200, if you buy deep discount, but not on co.com )

What happens if the leave after hitting lifetime status? I'd be thrilled if it’s a concern for Continental. For lifetime PE, you've got someone flying between 2.67 to 4.0 million miles. In terms of customer issues, some here argue that CO doesn’t think long-term anymore. I'd be surprised if the focus weren't on how it could benefit CO in the short term. As I said earlier, many FFer’s would have to think twice about stepping on another carrier; the potential for lifetime elite introduces an opportunity cost.

So, my guess for the reason that CO doesn't introduce the program is that they mustn't see much attrition after people hit Platinum. If people really hang around after they hit the 75,000 EQM's, there's no need for CO to offer any more incentives.

cova

I tend to agree with some of your comments here. The nature of the FF programs has changed over the years and the whole thought process towards flying and FF programs has changed. When AA started it - all reward travel was capacity controlled free.

Larry K. indicated he was Lifetime Plat on AA - from when he lived near SNA. He likely does not use it anymore. The entire executive team at CO is fairly new (post about 1995) - any many of them probably never flew CO until they got involved. In fact the folks running OnePass are new as well - and the history of the program (other than maybe file cabinet records) is not known. That is the impression I got talking to folks at the first DO.

The issue of Lifetime was discussed several times at the first DO and based on the economics today - it is something they do not want to consider.

ContinentalFan

You beat me to it. There might be an opportunity cost for CO by not having this program!

TWA Fan 1

Larry Kellner does not calculate in terms of opporunity cost. Everything for him is "what are you doing for me right now?"

Given the brutal swings in the airline biz I can't say I really blame him. You can make $340 million in one quarter, and then lose $1 billion the following year.

What matters is seizing the opportunity to make money as it presents itself in the immediate present.

Plus, I think it would be convincingly argued that, at least in its current iteration, CO does not have any need for more elite passengers (planes flying full, ff rewards stretched to the limit, etc.)

MilesDavis

Based on my observations, CO does not seem overly concerned with keeping the business of 75K+ Plats. My travel mate just hit 75K and he remarked to me "now what?".

xFF

A symptom of dereg was airlines defining their "service" more narrowly as a "good". There is a difference that goes to the heart of this discussion. Demand for goods is dominated by pricing considerations and very elastic demand schedules; demand for services is overlain with utility and expected value considerations with dimensions that, if viewed in terms of price alone, can make the demand appear quite inelastic.

CO apparently observed that awards of Infinite correlated with reduced flying. One reason is that the incremental utility of a CO BIS mile dropped thereafter forever. The "who to fly" decision is then dominated by all-in cost considerations (price+schedule+expected pain-in-butt). But this is exactly the situation that attains right now for those of you who have attained '08 Plat already, and did last year, and will again next year.

A perk that offers long-term benefit can keep the incremental utility of BIS high if that perk is structured to require both short term (e.g. Plat for N years) and long term (e.g., total miles > Plat-level times N) commitment. In fact, as N approaches, the marginal utility rises dramatically.

Once awarded, a drop in BIS utility is unavoidable, and the flying-pattern analyses will certainly pick that up. But after N years of near-blind loyalty, there are still aspects that those computer programs won't see. The most important one is the "my daddy drove a Buick because he always drove a Buick" effect. Another is "the devil you know."

Finally, if the company has an answer to the problem of selling the 75,001-st seat mile in July to a Plat who vests in June, it has an answer to selling each mile to a vested Infinite. It was curiosity w.r.t. that end that I asked the question on this thread last night about the SSR entry.

TWA Fan 1

That is consistent, though, with their attitude of "Cold Hard Cash is King."

You can spend Cold Hard Cash whether you fly 400,000 miles a year or 5,000 miles a year with CO.

If planes were emptier, I'm sure they would revise their policies, but clearly they have no need to provide more benefits in order to keep their planes full.

bigboy

Have infinite elite folks get accelerated status based on flying...

1 million lifetime miles

15K to Silver
30K to Gold
50K to Platnum

2 million+

10K to Silver
20K to Gold
30K to Platnum

or something like that. Thoughts?

radonc1

Based on my observations, CO does not seem overly concerned with keeping the business of 75K+ Plats. My travel mate just hit 75K and he remarked to me "now what?".

I think CO is very concerned about their elites. If they weren't, why would they keep such a close tab on them (they do know who you are out there).

A perk that offers long-term benefit can keep the incremental utility of BIS high if that perk is structured to require both short term (e.g. Plat for N years) and long term (e.g., total miles > Plat-level times N) commitment. In fact, as N approaches, the marginal utility rises dramatically.


I think that CO is not interested on copying DL or AA's method of rewarding FF's with permanent status. That they have made very clear.

Have infinite elite folks get accelerated status based on flying...

This is better, but still rewards a person for flying less. My suggestion is that once a certain absolute level of flying or revenue is reached, then certain rewards would be easier to obtain. However, there would still be the requirement that this super-elite would have to earn their platinum spurs each year to be able to use these rewards. These could include:
1. Upgrading to BF with miles up to the time of the flight.
2. Guarantee of BF upgrades with standard awards in certain fare classes
3. First place on a upgrade list (above plat) no matter what the fare class purchased. (this may be a stretch).

I suspect others could find rewards that would generate revenue but still award the very loyal flyer. It would also be an incentive for these flyers to keep earning their plat level elite each year.