Bumped from first to coach
Jun 25, 2006 | 5:43 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 212
Bumped from first to coach
Last week I was bumped from first to coach because of an equipment change. I had purchased a full Y ticket and upgraded it at time of purchase with Plat status.
I can somehow accept that if such a fiasco occurs, those paying for a higher fare class are last in line for bumping. What I do not accept was CO insistence that no compensation was due since I flew the class paid for.
As I tried to explain to the gate agent, the Y fare was significantly more than the nonrefundable fare. I purchased Y simply becasue I wanted the upgrade. As fare as I am concerned, Y is a form of discounted first. Therefore I should be refunded the difference between Y and the lowest fare on day of booking.
I accept that this infromation may not be available to a gate agent, but that doesn't change the principle of the thing. CO needs a process to refund appropriately.
After some back and forth, they gave me a Denied Boarding document and a $150 voucher. After reading the Denoied Board document, it appears that minimum compensation under that rule is $200.
I intend to go after at least the additional $50 and press a case for the fare difference as described above.
Comments?
I can somehow accept that if such a fiasco occurs, those paying for a higher fare class are last in line for bumping. What I do not accept was CO insistence that no compensation was due since I flew the class paid for.
As I tried to explain to the gate agent, the Y fare was significantly more than the nonrefundable fare. I purchased Y simply becasue I wanted the upgrade. As fare as I am concerned, Y is a form of discounted first. Therefore I should be refunded the difference between Y and the lowest fare on day of booking.
I accept that this infromation may not be available to a gate agent, but that doesn't change the principle of the thing. CO needs a process to refund appropriately.
After some back and forth, they gave me a Denied Boarding document and a $150 voucher. After reading the Denoied Board document, it appears that minimum compensation under that rule is $200.
I intend to go after at least the additional $50 and press a case for the fare difference as described above.
Comments?
Jun 25, 2006 | 8:05 am
#2
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston,Texas,USA
Programs: Starwood Gold, HH Diamond,Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 1,043
Originally Posted by brittex
Last week I was bumped from first to coach because of an equipment change. I had purchased a full Y ticket and upgraded it at time of purchase with Plat status.
I can somehow accept that if such a fiasco occurs, those paying for a higher fare class are last in line for bumping. What I do not accept was CO insistence that no compensation was due since I flew the class paid for.
As I tried to explain to the gate agent, the Y fare was significantly more than the nonrefundable fare. I purchased Y simply becasue I wanted the upgrade. As fare as I am concerned, Y is a form of discounted first. Therefore I should be refunded the difference between Y and the lowest fare on day of booking.
I accept that this infromation may not be available to a gate agent, but that doesn't change the principle of the thing. CO needs a process to refund appropriately.
After some back and forth, they gave me a Denied Boarding document and a $150 voucher. After reading the Denoied Board document, it appears that minimum compensation under that rule is $200.
I intend to go after at least the additional $50 and press a case for the fare difference as described above.
Comments?
I can somehow accept that if such a fiasco occurs, those paying for a higher fare class are last in line for bumping. What I do not accept was CO insistence that no compensation was due since I flew the class paid for.
As I tried to explain to the gate agent, the Y fare was significantly more than the nonrefundable fare. I purchased Y simply becasue I wanted the upgrade. As fare as I am concerned, Y is a form of discounted first. Therefore I should be refunded the difference between Y and the lowest fare on day of booking.
I accept that this infromation may not be available to a gate agent, but that doesn't change the principle of the thing. CO needs a process to refund appropriately.
After some back and forth, they gave me a Denied Boarding document and a $150 voucher. After reading the Denoied Board document, it appears that minimum compensation under that rule is $200.
I intend to go after at least the additional $50 and press a case for the fare difference as described above.
Comments?
Jun 25, 2006 | 8:22 am
#3
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 2.017 MM, Hilton Life Diamond, IHG Diamond, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (life gold), AA Gold
Posts: 8,052
Originally Posted by martinplas
IMJ you are SOL. Be happy you got 150% EQM, $150.00 and a seat to your destination..Its hard to complain about getting what you pay for. If you want a sure seat in First, buy it. Albeit ,buying a Y ticket as a Plat gives you some of the best odds ,it still is no guarantee you willl not crap out.
Still, it is pretty surprising that a Plat on a full Y ticket got kicked out of FC.
David
Jun 25, 2006 | 8:28 am
#4
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Programs: DL Diamond Million Miler, AA Ex-Plat, IHG RA, Marriott PLAT, HERTZ Pres Circle
Posts: 1,220
I don't think you deserve anything. True, you might buy the Y ticket because of the upgrade perk, but that's your decision. I buy Y tickets because I need maximum flexibility, not because of the upgrade perk. However, sometimes that doesn't work because the flights are full. You paid for a ticket, they gave you what you paid for (a coach ticket). bac luck that you got bumped down, but it's happened to us all. Last month I had to change my flight, gave up my AU, and had to sit in a middle seat....but that's another story...
Sorry, but it happens.
Randidliyo
Sorry, but it happens.
Randidliyo
Jun 25, 2006 | 8:32 am
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,150
Maybe its me , but NO WAY would I expect CO or any other carrier to compensate me in any way if I was Downgraded due to equipment change, thats if I hadnt purchased a FC or BF seat to begin with. Had I purchased with $$ or miles a FC/BF seat then I would expect compenstation to the degree that I Overpaid, Only.
The OP purchased a Coach tkt and in the end got Coach. OK the OP might have been able to buy a cheaper a less expensive tkt the day they did, but unless they have a printout of such, I would say no dice. had the OP been Downgraded on the same equipment but due to an Oversold problem or cause CO was able to sell a FC tkt for alot more then the OP paid then Compensation would be in order if proven and if it was me Id probably Never fly CO again, since I would have to expect it to keep reoccuring when ever it suited CO.
The OP purchased a Coach tkt and in the end got Coach. OK the OP might have been able to buy a cheaper a less expensive tkt the day they did, but unless they have a printout of such, I would say no dice. had the OP been Downgraded on the same equipment but due to an Oversold problem or cause CO was able to sell a FC tkt for alot more then the OP paid then Compensation would be in order if proven and if it was me Id probably Never fly CO again, since I would have to expect it to keep reoccuring when ever it suited CO.
Jun 25, 2006 | 8:34 am
#6
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,957
First, my experience is that they do not bump you based on fare paid. In December I was downgraded due to an equipment change and I was on a FC ticket. I would think that if your seat number is on both planes you will have better luck. Unfortunately, my seat did not exist when the downgrade was from a 767 to a 757. In my case another F class seat did not exist for any other flights that day or the next.
You may want to look at CO's Contract of Carriage about this issue. It isn't pretty, so you may not get much, if anything more than what you received (look at 4(b)(iii)). Since you were on a Y fare, you are not technically entitled to anything else. And since they always try to use the Y fare as the basis for the difference, its cost from a FC fare many times is minimal (even though I would never intentionally buy a Y fare except under dire circumstances):
You may want to look at CO's Contract of Carriage about this issue. It isn't pretty, so you may not get much, if anything more than what you received (look at 4(b)(iii)). Since you were on a Y fare, you are not technically entitled to anything else. And since they always try to use the Y fare as the basis for the difference, its cost from a FC fare many times is minimal (even though I would never intentionally buy a Y fare except under dire circumstances):
"4) Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily
a) Subject to the following exceptions, CO shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold flight at the rate of 200% of the sum of the value of the Passengers remaining flight coupons up to the Passengers next Stopover, or if none, to the Passengers final destination with a maximum of $400. However, the compensation shall be half the amount described above, with a $200 maximum, if CO arranges for comparable air transportation, or other transportation used by the Passenger that, at the time either such arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passengers next Stopover or if none, at the airport of the Passengers destination, not later than two hours after the time the direct or connecting flight on which confirmed space is held is planned to arrive in the case of interstate and overseas air transportation, or four hours after such time in the case of foreign air transportation.
b) EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
(i) The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with COs ticketing, check-in, and reconfirmation procedures, and requirements in this Contract of Carriage for acceptance for transportation;
(ii) The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons;
(iii) The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
(iv) The Passenger is accommodated on alternate transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passengers next Stopover, (if any), or at the final destination, not later than 60 minutes within the scheduled arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space; or
(v) The Passenger is an employee of CO or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space.
5) Payment Time and Form
a) Compensation will be made by CO on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to CO. However, when CO has arranged, for the Passengers convenience, alternate means of transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b) CO may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of monetary compensation due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise required and CO informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation credit.
6) Limitation of Liability If COs offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of COs failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
7) Written Explanation of Denied Boarding Compensation and Boarding Priority Rules Immediately after a denied boarding occurs, CO will give Passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily a written explanatory statement describing . . . .
a) Subject to the following exceptions, CO shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold flight at the rate of 200% of the sum of the value of the Passengers remaining flight coupons up to the Passengers next Stopover, or if none, to the Passengers final destination with a maximum of $400. However, the compensation shall be half the amount described above, with a $200 maximum, if CO arranges for comparable air transportation, or other transportation used by the Passenger that, at the time either such arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passengers next Stopover or if none, at the airport of the Passengers destination, not later than two hours after the time the direct or connecting flight on which confirmed space is held is planned to arrive in the case of interstate and overseas air transportation, or four hours after such time in the case of foreign air transportation.
b) EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
(i) The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with COs ticketing, check-in, and reconfirmation procedures, and requirements in this Contract of Carriage for acceptance for transportation;
(ii) The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons;
(iii) The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
(iv) The Passenger is accommodated on alternate transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passengers next Stopover, (if any), or at the final destination, not later than 60 minutes within the scheduled arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space; or
(v) The Passenger is an employee of CO or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space.
5) Payment Time and Form
a) Compensation will be made by CO on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to CO. However, when CO has arranged, for the Passengers convenience, alternate means of transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b) CO may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of monetary compensation due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise required and CO informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation credit.
6) Limitation of Liability If COs offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of COs failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
7) Written Explanation of Denied Boarding Compensation and Boarding Priority Rules Immediately after a denied boarding occurs, CO will give Passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily a written explanatory statement describing . . . .
Jun 25, 2006 | 8:52 am
#7
Join Date: Oct 2005
Programs: CO Platt,Hilton Dmnd,Marriott Platt,Hertz Presidents Circle,Avis Preferred Select
Posts: 313
Originally Posted by DiverDave
Still, it is pretty surprising that a Plat on a full Y ticket got kicked out of FC.
I agree: I can't think of too many scenarios that would bump a Y Platt, except that the remaining FC passengers were all paid FC.
It would be interesting to know some details. What was the specific equipment change? What were the departure and arrival cities? And were there connections involved?
Jun 25, 2006 | 9:05 am
#8
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Munich, Germany
Programs: LH HON, DL FO/MM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Accor Lifetime Platinum, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 6,174
Well - I think we are missing an important point here. The OP is a Platinum, and he decided to buy up to the full Y fare in order to get the upgrade immediately.
While digging out the CoC sure results in no compensation being due; however, looking at the relationship with the client, CO should go beyond the CoC to keep a high-yield passenger happy. They got his money afterall, and I betcha they would love to keep the money from full Y's coming.
While digging out the CoC sure results in no compensation being due; however, looking at the relationship with the client, CO should go beyond the CoC to keep a high-yield passenger happy. They got his money afterall, and I betcha they would love to keep the money from full Y's coming.
Jun 25, 2006 | 9:15 am
#9
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 17,769
Thoughts:
1.) OP not entitled to anything.
2.) I can't believe that they would bump the OP vs. other Elites/people on cheaper Coacy fares.
1.) OP not entitled to anything.
2.) I can't believe that they would bump the OP vs. other Elites/people on cheaper Coacy fares.
Jun 25, 2006 | 9:15 am
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,150
Originally Posted by rcs85551
Well - I think we are missing an important point here. The OP is a Platinum, and he decided to buy up to the full Y fare in order to get the upgrade immediately.
While digging out the CoC sure results in no compensation being due; however, looking at the relationship with the client, CO should go beyond the CoC to keep a high-yield passenger happy. They got his money afterall, and I betcha they would love to keep the money from full Y's coming.
While digging out the CoC sure results in no compensation being due; however, looking at the relationship with the client, CO should go beyond the CoC to keep a high-yield passenger happy. They got his money afterall, and I betcha they would love to keep the money from full Y's coming.
Jun 25, 2006 | 4:23 pm
#11
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Munich, Germany
Programs: LH HON, DL FO/MM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Accor Lifetime Platinum, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by craz
Co didnt have to offer Anything to the OP, now it seems the OP wants everything including the kitchen sink.
Jun 25, 2006 | 4:25 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United LT-GS, AA LT-Plat, Hyatt LT-Globalist, Hilton LT-Diamond, Marriott LT-Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 15,831
Originally Posted by randidliyo
I don't think you deserve anything. True, you might buy the Y ticket because of the upgrade perk, but that's your decision. I buy Y tickets because I need maximum flexibility, not because of the upgrade perk. However, sometimes that doesn't work because the flights are full. You paid for a ticket, they gave you what you paid for (a coach ticket). bac luck that you got bumped down, but it's happened to us all. Last month I had to change my flight, gave up my AU, and had to sit in a middle seat....but that's another story...
Sorry, but it happens.
Randidliyo
Sorry, but it happens.
Randidliyo
IMHO, it wasn't a coach ticket. He bought the ticket because it upgraded immediately to FC. If he wanted a coach ticket, he could have bought the ticket at a lower price.
Jun 25, 2006 | 4:29 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United LT-GS, AA LT-Plat, Hyatt LT-Globalist, Hilton LT-Diamond, Marriott LT-Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 15,831
Originally Posted by BenjaminNYC
Thoughts:
1.) OP not entitled to anything.
2.) I can't believe that they would bump the OP vs. other Elites/people on cheaper Coacy fares.
1.) OP not entitled to anything.
2.) I can't believe that they would bump the OP vs. other Elites/people on cheaper Coacy fares.
Perhaps by the letter of the law, you are correct, the OP isn't entitled to anything. If a company doesn't treat customers well, it loses them. It doesn't happen suddenly, but by the time it's clear there is a problem, it's very expensive to fix.
Jun 25, 2006 | 6:49 pm
#14
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: new york, ny, usa
Posts: 13,536
Originally Posted by ContinentalFan
IMHO, it wasn't a coach ticket. He bought the ticket because it upgraded immediately to FC. If he wanted a coach ticket, he could have bought the ticket at a lower price.
whether CO should have given $150 or not depends on the difference between what he paid and the cheapest coach ticket available at the time he purchased. if he wanted coach, he would have bought the cheapest coach ticket.
and, even if CO offers the difference in a travel voucher, technically that still wouldn't be enough since a CO voucher isn't exactly cash.
Jun 25, 2006 | 6:51 pm
#15
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 17,769
Originally Posted by fly co to see the yanks
i agree with this sentiment.
whether CO should have given $150 or not depends on the difference between what he paid and the cheapest coach ticket available at the time he purchased. if he wanted coach, he would have bought the cheapest coach ticket.
and, even if CO offers the difference in a travel voucher, technically that still wouldn't be enough since a CO voucher isn't exactly cash.
whether CO should have given $150 or not depends on the difference between what he paid and the cheapest coach ticket available at the time he purchased. if he wanted coach, he would have bought the cheapest coach ticket.
and, even if CO offers the difference in a travel voucher, technically that still wouldn't be enough since a CO voucher isn't exactly cash.